by hummingbird » Mon Feb 04, 2008 07:08 am
My father in-law died 2 years ago. He left my mother in-law well off. He was not a rich man.he was a factory worker till he retired and he raised cattle also. he worked himself to death I think.He dies the year after he retired. Dies of a heart failure out in the fields running cattle.He had it fixed so that when he died every bill he owed was paid for.Then he left her a huge policy besides. Now my hubby if he passed away tomorrow I would be in the poor house...lol No insurance at all to pay for anything.What does a person do when to have insurance Even the basic is so expensive it is a choice between feeding the kids and having insurance?
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:59 am Post Subject:
The adult basic has a really long waiting list. I know this cause my mom just went through this. I think she waited about a year. Recently she had some high blood pressure problems causing her nosebleeds and headaches. She went to the hospitol and they treated her then released her since she had no medical. The same day she had to go back and they finally kept her but couldn't run alot of tests cause of the medical expenses. It could of killed her. She just got approved a few days ago. There are also hospitol related programs that help pay the bills if you meet the income requirements.
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 09:12 pm Post Subject:
I could have gotten help for my hospital bills but I didn't met the deadline to bring in the paper work. I mean whos thinking of thoses things when you are at a hospital. It would not cover the dr though.I fine it odd that people can actually tur you away and refuse to help a person because they don't have the mony for all that stuff. If each dr took one name from a hat each dayand saw them free ,that would take care of a lot of medical needs.
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:21 pm Post Subject:
Good point there but unfortunately most docs are only concerned about there bottom line also. My docs office offers a sliding scale on fees if you haven't any insurance. On your other medical bills you can pay $10 a month and they will let you be. The only thing that sucks there is whether it is a surgery or just a hospitol stay they don't send one bill they send about five seperate one. One for each doc, one for e.r.,one for med supplies and by the time you pay each of them $10 each you end up paying out an extra $50 a month. Just went through thbis when I had surgery last year.
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 03:04 am Post Subject:
Wow! Wish Ihad your doc. I made arrangement to pay 25 each to the hospital and doc bill. As it stands Ithe hospital quit sending me a bill and so i didn't send payment and they called and left a messege.I called back and they said they musty have called by listake becasue they had no record of me oweing them anything. Then the same day I got another hospital bill. I also got a letter saying for me to pay the doc bill immediately even after i had made arrangements to pay them monthly.Thing is I have to come up with the 50 to pay them now.Right now I don't have it.But I want to keep it out of collections. Maybe I am on th wrong board. You think? No docs here have a sliding scale,I wish.
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 03:58 pm Post Subject:
I had a hospitol do this same thing to me. I had to go to the ER and when I got the bill I started making $10 payments. they sent me a letter that they didn't except partial payments and that I had 30 days to pay it in full or they turn them over to a collection agency. I called them and they said they simply did not handle there own billing unless paid in full and it was procedure to let a collection agency do this. Well a couple months later I heard from the collection agency (the first ten I paid was never taken off) and they said they would except ten a month and remove the first ten I said I paid. so sent in next payment and the next month recieved another letter from collection agency demanding no payment had been made at all (there went $20 so far). Few months later got a call from the next collection agency and told them the story, said they would send me out a payment book so that I could keep track of payments. Never got the book and they never got another payment. I don't use that hospitol anymore. If you can't afford the 25 try sending them 10. I am pretty sure that as long as you are sending 10 they can't turn it over or you can call and ask. most people can't afford sending in 25 on a bunch of seperate bills.
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 06:53 pm Post Subject:
I could have gotten help for my hospital bills but I didn't met the deadline to bring in the paper work. I mean whos thinking of thoses things when you are at a hospital. It would not cover the dr though.
Your financial planner, CPA and/or insurance agent SHOULD be thinking about things like this, as long as you keep the lines of communication open. I've had people take my advice and call me BEFORE any surgery and/or medical costs are completed (excluding emergencies) that saved them several thousand dollars. On the other hand, I've also had clients call me AFTER the fact.
My latest call entailed a situation where a doctor was "lab happy" and ordered "13 tests" including blood work and 1 MRI' for somebody was currently has a HSA. Long story short, the bad news she now has a $900 bill due, which she is paying off at $10 a month. The good news is that she is in great health and can deduct contributions to her HSA off her taxes (less money to Uncle Sam is always a good thing) and decide to use the HSA to pay for the health care costs or let it sit and pay out of pocket.
I fine it odd that people can actually tur you away and refuse to help a person because they don't have the mony for all that stuff.
How exactly is it odd? What type of business could sustain their operations if all they did was offer free information, advice and products, without anything in exchange?
I'll tell you how...they set up a non-profit organization and THE REST OF US help sustain the business through our taxes. Business 101 would dictate that business would go out of business if they didn't receive cash infusions and/or assistance.
If I invite you into my house and offer you a glass of juice, but you see an expensive bottle of wine and want a glass of that instead, should I be forced to give a you a glass of wine? I might just do that, but that would indicate the fact I'm a nice guy and not seeking to produce a profit.
If each dr took one name from a hat each day and saw them free ,that would take care of a lot of medical needs.
The average cost to see a doctor in most areas is right around $60 a visit. Guess how much is cost 30 years ago before x-rays, blood tests, mammograms, PSA testing, etc. were invented, marketed and used.
I have nothing against providing charity work because I do that myself, I just do not think people should take advantage of someones generosity.
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 01:07 pm Post Subject:
I see your point there. I am thankful that my hubby changed jobs and now has world class benefits. I think helping others during a hard time or them getting help through programs isn't a bad thing. A lot of people work and can never get help like the ones that lie around collecting free checks every month. So I am glad that their are programs to help the working person.
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 02:02 pm Post Subject:
I see your point ,but helping one person will not break a Dr.It is called feelings. When I go into an office and see nothing but signs plastered everywhere about paying your bill upfront,I get a cold feeling like when they look at me they see dollar signs instead of a person.Like money just walked in off the street...lol If they had a sliding scale for people who had no insurance would even be better.I remember when I would go to the Dr and the Dr I went to gave you medicine in his office and charged you like 34 or 40 dollars for all.It just makes me uneasy when I see a Dr whose FIRST consideration is whether you can afford to pay.Should not the patient still come first.I mean here you are sitting there in a hospital bleeding and they give you these financial papers to fill out. How cold does that sound?
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 06:31 pm Post Subject:
I see your point ,but helping one person will not break a Dr.
I agree with you with a caveat. Many doctors will work out a payment plan for people with limited incomes AS LONG AS YOU ASK. I worked out payment plan with a physician when I needed to see somebody for an ear infection. I don't think I ever had one before and do not wish to experience it again as it was very annoying and discomforting.
The difference between what I did vs. the average consumer, is that I knew I could receive equal treatment at a fraction of the cost by visiting an urgent care center. So I sucked up the pain and discomfort for 2 days for the clinic to open up again and waited about 2ish hours in the waiting room. My bill at the time was right around $200 retail plus another $50 for medication. We settled for somewhere around $120 in 3 equal installments of $40 a month, once I told him I was an uninsured and poor college student.
Had I not asked I wouldn't have gotten the 40% discount and that same visit would have cost me a minimum of $500 at an emergency room in most areas. One thing I didn't know about at the time were resources I could have used to obtain cheaper medications, which would have saved me about 35% off the medication costs. Live and learn!
Anyone who meets certain guidelines is entitled to Medicaid, which will greatly reduce medical costs and/or provide free care.
The number of primary care physicians in practice has been declining in recent years due to the fact that it's becoming increasingly difficult to maintain a practice with the current private and government medical system.
I highly doubt doctors go into business and rack up $100,000+ in educational expenses to earn $40,000 per year. If that was the case, what is the financial incentive to become a physician and attend medical training, internships, etc. for a 8-12 years, when an undergraduate degree earns people a median $48,000 a year (Department of Labor stats).
When I was deciding to pursue my Doctorate in Psychology I estimated my costs (just for education) would be about $80,000 at end of my training. Double that number with living expenses factored in for 3-5.
At the rate of $300 (what I pay a month now for my education loans) a physician would be able to pay off his education loans in 28 years, whereas it will take me about 22 years if I don't increase payments. In the meantime, we both need to pay living expenses, business expenses, and most importantly, enjoy life with friends and family and HOPEFULLY save up some money for retirement, since I don't think Social Security will be available down the road unless major changes (increase in taxes) are implemented.
Medicare doctors even have a worse time surviving when the government reduces eligible expenses. According to http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/211.html there are approximately there are approximately 900,000 International Medical Graduates (physicians who come to the US from another country). Using the common 47M of uninsured as a basis. If every one of those physicians saw 1 patient per year, they would be able to help 1% of that demographic. Using a conservative $50 p/ visit the doctors would provide $45M in FREE health care. That is certainly doable, but isn't that what Medicaid is for? Why provide additional care for no cost when all of us are already paying for that through taxes. That goes against the basic principles of macro level economics.
Patient satisfaction is largely determined by being friendly and nice patient vs. being affluent. Wouldn't you agree that you normally get better service and enjoy life when you're cordial. I could be wrong, but I do not think that physicians are cold people, as they could easily have chosen a different profession.
Here's a test you can do that might be fun. Schedule an appointment with a recently licensed therapist (doctorate level) and a primary care physician...then visit that same person (if he's still in business) in 5 years and see if you notice any changes in his demeanor and ask the following question, "Was it worth it?"
Many doctors will work out a payment plan for people with limited incomes AS LONG AS YOU ASK. I worked out payment plan with a few physicians when I came out of the military and did not have health insurance. The difference is that I visited an urgent care center because I did research and knew that going to the emergency room would cost me approximately $900 dollars. My bill at the time was right around $200 retail. We settled for $120 I believe once I told him I was an uninsured and poor college student. Had I not asked I wouldn't have gotten the 40% discount and that I can respect.
One of my cousins owns one of the largest private practice in MD and he also teaches at Georgetown. Despite the fact that most people would think somebody at his level would be smug and snobbish, he is one of warmest people I have had the pleasure to meet.
Having money doesn't bring you happiness. Not having money creates unhappiness, so the key is to obtain a happy medium.
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:20 am Post Subject:
You make some very good points here Salpro. I am not demeaning the medical field at all and relize it does take a lot to beome a doctor. I have been with my prmary care physician for 15 years because she treats me like a real person. She has a sign in her office that she would like you to pay the office fee in full UNLESS you need to make other arrangements. I feel some people probaly do take advantage of this making it harder for the folks that really need it. I have always had some type of insurance. My mother on the other hand works two jobs to survive and can not afford or qualify for any type of medical in the past. She was very appreciate of the sliding scale offer from the dear doc.
I also believe that people do get better care when they are cordial. I've also ran into docs who are so rude that you wonder why they ever got into a field that deals with people everyday. Bottom line here....We all come from different fields and different background...we can not always understand the others...so you were right on cordial does matter.
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