by lindsey122581 » Sun Nov 02, 2008 07:28 pm
I purchased my 2007 Accord EX-L (V6 6spd) in August 2006. At the time of purchase, the window sticker on the car read $28,141. I did pay a little less than that by paying cash up front.
Unfortunately, I was in an accident while driving the car. This happened on October 22nd of this year. I lost consciousness at the wheel, due to illness, and severly damaged the vehicle. I hit a 3ft. deep ditch, a bank, a road sign, and a large drain tile (drain pipe). I was, however, within 100 feet of my driveway when the accident happened, so I was able to pull the vehicle in at my house.
The damage to the car is significant and I am sure there is much more than is visible with the naked or untrained eye. The damage (estimated by me) is as follows:
INSIDE
driver's side airbag deployed
steering wheel split for airbag
steering column damaged due to airbag deployment
driver's side powerseat broken (not bolted to floor anymore)
in-dash 6-disc cd changer w/ satelite radio damaged
entire dash has "set down" about 2-3 inches from normal position
scratches to dials / gauges panel
OUTSIDE
both front tires busted ($300/each Michelin W-rated lowprofile tires)
both front fenders damaged
hood damaged
front bumper damaged (demolished really)
ground effects (side skirts) on both sides damaged
driver's side door damaged
passenger side door damaged, but possibly repairable (not sure)
large dent to rear fender on passenger side
passenger side headlight damaged (these are about $500 - $750 each)
large upward buckle of the roof of the car where the sunroof / moonroof is (I am assuming this is the frame or subframe)
damaged aluminum (17" premium factory) rim on passenger (possibly driver's side also)
Underneath the car, EVERYTHING is sitting on the ground! The car continued to run after the accident, but after it was cut off, will not start back smoothly. I am no mechanic, but I am assuming that new cars do have a mechanism that encourage them to drop the motor, etc. when involved in a frontend collision ... but I don't think it would be to the extent of this damage.
Here's the issue that I am having ----
My insurance company refused to send an adjuster to my residence or anywhere nearby to examine the car. The car was picked up, by a towing company of the insurance's choice, and was hauled to a salvage yard over 2 hours away. I agreed to this under the impression (and confidence) that the car was likely a total loss and would be moved to this location by the insurance anyhow.
For 4 days, I was unable to acquire my vehicle's whereabouts. My local agent had no clue what was going on and the claims' department at the corporate hq were no help whatsoever. Finally, on Friday of this past week, I located my vehicle at the salvage yard over 2 hours away. I was also told that an adjuster had viewed the car there and had given an estimate of $5700, with nearly $3000 of that going to cover the cost of the deployed airbag. My anger came when I was told that this adjuster hadn't even bothered to look underneath the car because " there wasn't a lift anywhere for him to have the car put on to view the damage". The claims rep told me that it was my responsibility to contact a towing company, to choose a shop, to arrange for the car to be hauled back here (over 2 hours again), to contact the adjuster myself, to make an appointment for him to come down here, and to make sure the insurance estimate is completed. I instructed the rep to have the vehicle towed to my home address and then we would personally ensure the vehicle's delivery to a satisfactory shop and take care of the other business. She refused and stated that I couldn't have the car back unless I dropped my claim and promised not to make any claim on the car in the future.
Can an insurance company refuse to give me MY car or refuse to let me have MY car placed where I want it placed?
The car is being towed to closest possible approved shop, but that is all I know. I do not know if the car has been delivered at that location yet or not. The adjuster is supposed to drive 3 hours down here to do anther estimate on it once he has it on a lift.
Anyone have any advice on this situation? [/list]
Unfortunately, I was in an accident while driving the car. This happened on October 22nd of this year. I lost consciousness at the wheel, due to illness, and severly damaged the vehicle. I hit a 3ft. deep ditch, a bank, a road sign, and a large drain tile (drain pipe). I was, however, within 100 feet of my driveway when the accident happened, so I was able to pull the vehicle in at my house.
The damage to the car is significant and I am sure there is much more than is visible with the naked or untrained eye. The damage (estimated by me) is as follows:
INSIDE
driver's side airbag deployed
steering wheel split for airbag
steering column damaged due to airbag deployment
driver's side powerseat broken (not bolted to floor anymore)
in-dash 6-disc cd changer w/ satelite radio damaged
entire dash has "set down" about 2-3 inches from normal position
scratches to dials / gauges panel
OUTSIDE
both front tires busted ($300/each Michelin W-rated lowprofile tires)
both front fenders damaged
hood damaged
front bumper damaged (demolished really)
ground effects (side skirts) on both sides damaged
driver's side door damaged
passenger side door damaged, but possibly repairable (not sure)
large dent to rear fender on passenger side
passenger side headlight damaged (these are about $500 - $750 each)
large upward buckle of the roof of the car where the sunroof / moonroof is (I am assuming this is the frame or subframe)
damaged aluminum (17" premium factory) rim on passenger (possibly driver's side also)
Underneath the car, EVERYTHING is sitting on the ground! The car continued to run after the accident, but after it was cut off, will not start back smoothly. I am no mechanic, but I am assuming that new cars do have a mechanism that encourage them to drop the motor, etc. when involved in a frontend collision ... but I don't think it would be to the extent of this damage.
Here's the issue that I am having ----
My insurance company refused to send an adjuster to my residence or anywhere nearby to examine the car. The car was picked up, by a towing company of the insurance's choice, and was hauled to a salvage yard over 2 hours away. I agreed to this under the impression (and confidence) that the car was likely a total loss and would be moved to this location by the insurance anyhow.
For 4 days, I was unable to acquire my vehicle's whereabouts. My local agent had no clue what was going on and the claims' department at the corporate hq were no help whatsoever. Finally, on Friday of this past week, I located my vehicle at the salvage yard over 2 hours away. I was also told that an adjuster had viewed the car there and had given an estimate of $5700, with nearly $3000 of that going to cover the cost of the deployed airbag. My anger came when I was told that this adjuster hadn't even bothered to look underneath the car because " there wasn't a lift anywhere for him to have the car put on to view the damage". The claims rep told me that it was my responsibility to contact a towing company, to choose a shop, to arrange for the car to be hauled back here (over 2 hours again), to contact the adjuster myself, to make an appointment for him to come down here, and to make sure the insurance estimate is completed. I instructed the rep to have the vehicle towed to my home address and then we would personally ensure the vehicle's delivery to a satisfactory shop and take care of the other business. She refused and stated that I couldn't have the car back unless I dropped my claim and promised not to make any claim on the car in the future.
Can an insurance company refuse to give me MY car or refuse to let me have MY car placed where I want it placed?
The car is being towed to closest possible approved shop, but that is all I know. I do not know if the car has been delivered at that location yet or not. The adjuster is supposed to drive 3 hours down here to do anther estimate on it once he has it on a lift.
Anyone have any advice on this situation? [/list]
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 09:42 pm Post Subject:
I am sorry you had such a bad accident. Thankfully you are alive and did not suffer terrible injury.
An insurance company cannot refuse to give you your car back. They cannot hold the car hostage (nor would they want to) until you say you will drop the claim and promise not to file a claim in the future on the vehicle.
Are you absolutely sure this is what the adjuster said because if in fact this is what you were told then you need to file a complaint tomorrow morning with your State Division of Insurance.
Before you do so you may want to contact the company and advise them of your intent to file a complaint. There may have been a misunderstanding or a lack of communication between yourself and the Claims Rep. You need to clarify what the CR told you with the supervisor.
It is hard to believe the adjuster would tell you that you could not have your car back unless you dropped the claim considering the actions that could be taken against a company for doing so. In all my years in this industry I have never heard an adjuster say such a thing. There are severe sanctions that can be applied towards an insurance company if in fact a company were to hold your car hostage.
Speak to a supervisor and relay the facts as you have stated here. If the issue cannot be resolved then file a complaint with your State DOI. Sometimes a simple call by a Compliance Investigator to the company will help get the facts straight and get to the bottom of the problem.
You could not have driven the car off the dealer's lot (especially a brand new car) without full coverage. Check your Declaration page for coverage for towing and car rental.
As the insured you have the duty to mitigate your expenses when you have a loss. You should be reimbursed for towing expense. You need to remit your tow bills to the company for reimbursement and perhaps car rental bills. Many companies nowadays have you pay for the car rental expense and then reimburse you when receipts are remitted. If you did elect to take out this coverage you need to check the Dec page for your limit for car rental. My company will pay the car rental company directly for the limit on my policy for car rental coverage.
Once the vehicle is towed to the repair facility of your choice the body shop will contact the company auto appraiser to come out and inspect the vehicle. It will be put on a lift and inspected by the auto appraiser and body shop. If there is supplemental damage discovered upon tear down that is related to the accident, the body shop will contact the company to come out and reinspect. If the damage is directly related to the accident the company will authorize the supplemental repairs.
I do not know where you live but if you are in a rural area perhaps there was no facility nearby to tow the vehicle to other than the one two hours away. It may have appeared that the vehicle was a total loss once the auto appraiser inspected it and it very well might be deemed a total loss. In our state if repairs to the vehicle exceed 65% or more for repairs versus the actual cash value of the vehicle pre-accident condition (excluding paint) then the vehicle is a total loss. Airbags are extremley expensive so I have no doubt that 3K would be written in the estimate to replace the airbag. People steal airbags and sell them for amounts significant to 3K.
All of this depends on the repair estimate and your state's NRS of a total loss percentage versus repairs to determine the vehicle a total loss.
Did you purchase GAP Insurance? If you were not in the rears or had excessive late payments with the lender then GAP will come into play and pay off a portion or all of the balance due to lender depending on your payment history. Consumers do not realize that late payments can and will effect a payoff by your GAP insurance.
Try to work it out with the company before you file a DOI complaint but if you are not satisfied then give your State DOI the opportunity to look into this for you.
I wish you the best of luck. Having a car accident such as yours is very traumatic but again, thankfully you were okay. Look at the positive side.
Good Luck!
(Any thoughts or suggestions on this one Lori??:))
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:43 am Post Subject:
Can an insurance company refuse to give me MY car or refuse to let me have MY car placed where I want it placed?
No, no, no the insurance company can't even say that. If the adjuster has told you that you're required to drop the claim to get back the car, you're required to file the complaint against the insurance company for acting in bad faith with the State Department of Insurance.
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:57 pm Post Subject:
Lindsey somethings not right here...First off what insurance company is this? and have you talked to your company's adjuster or was this an independent adjuster hired to look at the vehicle that you talked to?
The vehicle should've been towed directly to a shop to do a full inspection unless they KNEW it was an OTL (obvious total loss) which apparently it was not...
Find out the shop it is at and call the shop and ask when an adjuster is supposed to come look at it, then see if they will call you after the adjuster has inspected it so you know when to start bugging your adjuster if they don't call you first....call your carrier and talk with the adjuster from YOUR carrier, ask about the progress of this claim....
I just can't imagine an adjuster ANY adjuster saying what you've said, I'm not calling you a liar, just wish we understood the full scope of the conversation.
If you'd like I'll run a value for you on your vehicle I need mileage and ALL options (including if it is an auto or manual tranny, leather or power seats etc), also if there is any UNREPAIRED prior damage, also there is no "EX-L" for an accord of that year...ex yes, but no 'L' anywhere, also 2 or 4 door? there is an EX, LX, SE, also an EX NAVIGATION, and HYBRID,and HYBRID NAVIGATION, but I'll bet it's not that, not for 28k..let me know if you want me to run a value for you just provide the requested information and I'll be happy to check...you know of course that your vehicle would have depreciated significantly in two years...
All states (i think) have percentage total loss laws on the books now, and my state does not count air bags or tax in that calculation, (percentage totals) however it sounds like yours is going to be an economical total so that won't matter...
another poster mentioned gap, but in your case if I understood your post you paid cash so that is of no consequence in your claim....
We'll be happy to help you thru this in any way we can...Do you have rental on your policy? If so call them and get yourself in a rental if you have not so far...also you do not need road side assistance coverage or tow coverage, all tows associated with this loss will be covered under your collision coverage.
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 03:22 pm Post Subject: Reply to your replies!
First of all, thank you to you guys that have commented and replied to my posting!
Just to clarify -- I have not spoken to the adjuster. This was a claims rep with the insurance company that told me that my car could not be returned to me unless I dropped the claim. I am not mistaken of this at all. She said in plain spoken American English: "Ma'am, I absolutely cannot tow the car to your home unless you drop your claim. Is this what you are saying to me that you intend to do?" Obviously, I replied with "no.. but this is MY CAR and I want it returned to ME". Her reply was a repeat of the initial statement.
I was also told that the car needed to be moved ASAP from the salvage yard where it was located (2+ hours away). I continued to instruct the rep that I wanted the vehicle returned to ME and I would have it retowed to another shop on Monday morning (today) and would work it out to have the adjuster (their adjuster) come check it out, etc. Again, I was told that I could not have my car returned to me unless I dropped my claim.
As of around 11 p.m. last night, the car had not arrived at the appointed shop that the insurance finally convinced me to tow it to. I am calling the shop within the next half hour to locate the vehicle. I am also going to make sure that I am there when any inspection takes place, as I feel I have that right considering that this is my vehicle and I am very leary of this company's capacity to perform to standard after all the confusion and chaos.
Also, for all the comments about the other things ---
I haven't recieved any tow bill as of yet, but rest assured that when I do, they will pay for it. They wanted it towed and refused to tow it where I wanted it towed, so that makes it their problem.
I don't have a rental. I have a second vehicle that I drive (much older Honda Accord with 240,000 miles on it!).
I am looking into filing a complaint as we speak. I will be sure to post and let you know how everything works out. I think I may have more to complain about that just the comments. I am about 90% sure that I have figured out the reasoning behind towing the car to a facility 2 hours away. It had nothing to do with a lack of facilities or equipment here. The reasoning was that the insurance company's auto auction is located at this facility where my car was towed. I almost certain that the car has been towed to this location, ran through the auction a couple of days ago, and then I was given the value that they were offered at auction on the car in the present condition. Obviously, the insurance company declined the sale of the car because it wasn't their car to sale to begin with and then notified me that an adjuster had examined the car and estimated my damage. I'm almost positive that there hasn't been an adjuster within 10 miles of my car and that I am getting an auction price as an estimate. If I confirm this, I will take legal action. They cannot do this, can they?
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 02:52 am Post Subject:
Just to clarify -- I have not spoken to the adjuster. This was a claims rep with the insurance company
Well a claims rep and an adjuster are usually the exact same thing..or at least at every company I know of....I still don't understand her comment, it makes zero sense to me...this is YOUR company...well lets just drop that FOR NOW.I was also told that the car needed to be moved ASAP from the salvage yard where it was located (2+ hours away).
Ok, now wait a second...aren't they the ones that insisted it be towed to this salvage yard to start with? So they could inspect it there?
I am also going to make sure that I am there when any inspection takes place, as I feel I have that right considering that this is my vehicle and I am very leary of this company's capacity to perform to standard after all the confusion and chaos.
That's fine and you can if you can 'catch' the adjuster when they are there...but let's be honest will you know what you're looking at? Do you know this shop or anyone at this shop at all? If so, or even if not, make a trip to this shop and talk with the owner or the manager ask what they know about your company and the adjuster that will be coming to do the estimate, they'll know them more than likely ask the manager if HE or SHE will look at the vehicle too, or with the adjuster to make sure that none of the damage is missed...also ask if they (the shop) will let you know THEIR findings...I haven't recieved any tow bill as of yet, but rest assured that when I do, they will pay for it. They wanted it towed and refused to tow it where I wanted it towed, so that makes it their problem.
And you shouldn't see any tow bills they will pay all of these under your collision coverage...The reasoning was that the insurance company's auto auction is located at this facility where my car was towed. I almost certain that the car has been towed to this location, ran through the auction a couple of days ago, and then I was given the value that they were offered at auction on the car in the present condition.
What? Wait...first they couldn't even THINK about placing this vehicle in an auction without the title...now, I can understand wanting to tow it close to where it will EVENTUALLY end up...but they in no way could run this thru an auction...what do you mean,by this comment?
then I was given the value that they were offered at auction on the car in the present condition
What do you mean they gave you an auction price? you mean you think that is the price they gave you as a repair estimate? They should be able to PRODUCE in writing a copy of the orginal estimate, with ease...Dang, Lindsay this is a mess! What the hell company is this? Are you telling me that your vehicle and claim has been turned in since the 22nd and you still don't know if its a total or repairable? What state are you in as well...I need to do some checking for you...let us know the name of the company, and the state you are in...If I were you I'd wait on filing the DOI complaint untill you have all your ducks in a row....
Call the shop and the adjuster again tomorrow am see if the car is there yet...and if so when the adjuster and who is the adjuster that will be inspecting it? do they work for your company or are they an independent adjuster, also ask them to fax or email you a copy of the estimate that was written at the salvage yard NOW...if they tell you they can't ask them why not...all companys use computer estimating systems...there should not be any trouble at all...do you have a way to record your conversation with the adjuster? if you do then do it...and no you do not have to tell them you are recording it, if one party to the conversation knows it's recorded that's all that's usually needed and you probably won't use it anyway...i'm sorry I'm rambling now, I just can't believe this! Let us know these answers, I'll do some research and also let us know what the claims adjuster says, be sure you write down every persons name you talk to ask them to spell it, write down the date and time you talk to them as well...I'm starting to smell a bad faith claim here.
Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 07:47 pm Post Subject: UPDATE
Just wanted to post a quick update on my situation...
Unfortunately, there has been no resolution of the situation yet, but we are working on it... or I am anyhow.
The car was returned to the local shop on Monday of last week. I personally did a walk through with the body shop manager / adjuster / estimator guy on Tuesday. We surveyed the damaged, but I was very aggrivated with his never-ceasing attempt to make money. He was very hasty to inform me several times that he could fix anything and that this shop had "the best subframe straightening machine in the state of Tennessee" and that that machine "could get a car within a 1/100th of a millimeter of perfection". Whatever... perfection? Give me a break. A car with this much damage will never be perfect!
Anyhow, he completed his estimate on Wednesday of last week. The damage came up to between $11-12k... over twice what the initial estimate from the salvage yard that I was given at the beginning. My biggest issue with this is that with the estimate I was given, the body shop / adjuster guy didn't follow my explicit directions that absolutely NO reconditioned, salvage, junk parts would be used in the completing the estimate because absolutely none of these parts were acceptable to use on my car. Because of this, the estimate was around $1000 or $1500 lower than should have been b/c there were reconditioned / used / junk parts used in the calculation. I also felt like there were parts of the car that were damaged that should be replaced, instead of repaired, which also made a great difference in the estimate. Had this been done correctly, my car would've been easily recognized as a "total loss".
Now, I have a car that is almost 70% damaged, but it isn't enough to be totaled according to my wonderfully cooperative (sarcasm) insurance company. I also noted that this body shop happened to charge $10/ hr LESS than the average body shop in the area. With all new parts ordered and the average-priced labor calculated, then it would be over 80% damage to the car. I am most definitely looking into having it towed to another shop.. possibly a dealership ... to have a second estimate done.
I really would prefer that this car be totaled considering that over half of the car is lost in this damage. Regardless of what repairs could be done and how well those could be done, this car would never be the same. (A front wheel drive car that has had the front wheels ripped out from under it will never drive right again... regardless of how good the mechanic is!)
Also....
I did file a formal complaint with the insurance company's head manager. I contacted the Bureau of Insurance and was directed to contact this man. Of course, his secretary took the complaint and she was very happy to assist me in any way. She took my complaint and noted that she would make sure that the manager contacted me ASAP. I have not heard a reply yet. I will recontact them tomorrow if I do not hear before the work day is over.
I also filed a formal complaint with Consumer Affairs. No response there either.
I have been taking the suggestions about writing down names, dates, etc. I have a file that is growing more and more every single day.
I'll post again to keep you updated! Thanks for your help! [/img]
Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 08:53 pm Post Subject:
My biggest issue with this is that with the estimate I was given, the body shop / adjuster guy didn't follow my explicit directions that absolutely NO reconditioned, salvage, junk parts would be used in the completing the estimate because absolutely none of these parts were acceptable to use on my car. Because of this, the estimate was around $1000 or $1500 lower than should have been b/c there were reconditioned / used / junk parts used in the calculation. I also felt like there were parts of the car that were damaged that should be replaced, instead of repaired, which also made a great difference in the estimate. Had this been done correctly, my car would've been easily recognized as a "total loss".
Ok Lindsey you do understand that you don't have a say so in this, (re: parts used) unless your company offers an OEM only parts endorcement AND you purchased that endor. if you did not or they do not offer it then they are perfectly within their right to put LKQ (lke kind and quality) parts on your vehicle....RE: repair vs replace on some of the parts, what is your back ground in auto repair? I'm not being snotty just wonder if you are qualified to make that determination is all....there are many times that my husband would even think parts had to be replaced and he couldn't be more wrong...Now, I have a car that is almost 70% damaged, but it isn't enough to be totaled according to my wonderfully cooperative (sarcasm) insurance company. I also noted that this body shop happened to charge $10/ hr LESS than the average body shop in the area. With all new parts ordered and the average-priced labor calculated, then it would be over 80% damage to the car. I am most definitely looking into having it towed to another shop.. possibly a dealership ... to have a second estimate done.
make sure you talk to the adjuster first because you will likely be on the hook for thow, and if the adjuster wrote the sheet then ANY shop will have to work by that shee, if the other shop's labor is that much higher and they won't come down you very well could be on the hook for that differnce as well...you could be cuttin off your nose to spite your face...I really would prefer that this car be totaled considering that over half of the car is lost in this damage. Regardless of what repairs could be done and how well those could be done, this car would never be the same. (A front wheel drive car that has had the front wheels ripped out from under it will never drive right again... regardless of how good the mechanic is!)
I'll have to disagree with that..I see it every day and have for over 20 years, it all depends on the shop....You do not HAVE to repair this vehicle you can take the amount of the repair and sell this car to a rebuilder, they will love it cause no salvage title...so then you get that money as well...Does your state allow first party diminished value claims? If so then that is another avenue to get additional monies for this car.that this shop had "the best subframe straightening machine in the state of Tennessee" and that that machine "could get a car within a 1/100th of a millimeter of perfection". Whatever... perfection? Give me a break. A car with this much damage will never be perfect!
I'm pretty sure he didn't say 'sub frame', he's talking about the unibody, and he's right, the equipment used today is computerized and there is no reason it cannot get back to spec....the thing is Lindsey they don't roll off the line perfect either...you'd be surprised the paint flaws alone I can find in a brand new car...Hang in there, don't make any rash moves without all the necessary information, ask about 1st party DV claim....(you'll have to repair it to get this)...you can also ask or look at your states Dept of Ins website for this information probably...
Have you asked your adjuster what the salvage value of your vehicle is? That's another way vehicles total...it's called an 'economic' total loss, you take the ACV minus the SALVAGE this number equals how much can be spent on the repair, no more, or it's a total...many times vehicle is econ.total and not total by percentage, and visa versa.
Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:44 pm Post Subject: Response to last post...
OK Lori, yes my policy does state that the recycled parts can only be used at the discretion of the owner...who at this point is still me... so I DO have a say in it.
As for the second comment.... I may not be an insurance expert as you seem to be and I don't claim to be ... and I don't claim to be an auto body specialist or anything of that nature. I'm an English teacher and a funeral director / embalmer, neither of which have to do with cars. HOWEVER, the issues with my car that I am referring to wouldn't take a genius to note. They are plainly visible to the naked eye. One in particular (on the back right fender) is not fixable. I know that because that one was actually there before the wreck and I had consulted with a body shop about fixing it. It would cost more to fix it than it would to replace it. So, that's my point in that.
As for the other parts of the car that should likely be replaced v. repaired, I am still very persistent that this is a new car and I'm not interested in having a new car with bondo, welded together peices, cheap parts, or half-way working / half-way not working parts. I don't think that's acceptable. Would you want that stuff on your car? I'm sorry. I paid $30k for this car. I'm a little picky.
To answer your other questions / comments ---
I spoke with the head Customer Service Manager for the insurance company on Monday. He spent an hour and a half apologizing to me for the behavior of his employee (the one who told me I couldn't have my car). Basically, we are at a complete gridlock and it's going to come down to who gets tired of this mess first -- me or them -- and I'm not going anywhere.
I am waiting on an opening at another body in the area and the car will be towed there as soon as that is available. I'm not worried about having to pay a tow bill or whatever. That's not a big deal at all.
Adjuster? What adjuster? I have not seen or heard from anyone representing the insurance company as an 'adjuster'. In fact, it is my knowledge that the only person from the insurance company that has laid eyes on the car was the adjuster at the salvage yard at the very beginning. That hasn't been another one see the car. The estimate I have now (the latest one) was from the body shop manager .... and no, he isn't an adjuster or anyone working for the insurance (not in the sense that we are talking about anyhow).
I did check on the salvage value and the diminished value thing on Monday. According to this guy, I can't make a claim for any diminished value payment. The state of Virginia does allow for this, but my policy doesn't seem to.
The salvage on the car is that exact amount of the first estimate of the damage. Strange, isn't it? I mean, it was down to the penny exactly the same. The salvage on the car is $5300.
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 02:07 am Post Subject:
OK Lori, yes my policy does state that the recycled parts can only be used at the discretion of the owner...who at this point is still me... so I DO have a say in it.
Wouldn't you think that an adjuster licensed in that state would know that? Ok, Lindsey, so you live in one of the few states that says this, (almost), I'd bet it does not say 'recycled' parts, (which are OEM parts), it probably says after market parts or non oem parts, you might want to double check that...They are plainly visible to the naked eye. One in particular (on the back right fender) is not fixable. I know that because that one was actually there before the wreck and I had consulted with a body shop about fixing it. It would cost more to fix it than it would to replace it. So, that's my point in that
I was simply trying to figure out if you are qualified to make these calls re: physical damage to a vehicle. First there is NO back fender, it's a quarter panel, and if your quarter (prior to this loss) needed to be replaced , then your carrier should be taking that damage off the value of your car...and to replace a rt 1/4 on your vehicle would cost approximently $1800.00 based on the rates in my area the part alone is about 700 and the labor about 17 hours, then refinish on top of that, plus detrim and blend...so we're talking closer to 2400.00 to replace that 1/4 (based on 46.00/26.00 labor rate)...So in truth, that full amount should be deducted from your vehicles ACV..be glad no one has looked closely enough at that, or doesn't have the experience to tell the difference between the two hits...(how'd that happen by the way?)...I am still very persistent that this is a new car and I'm not interested in having a new car with bondo, welded together peices, cheap parts, or half-way working / half-way not working parts. I don't think that's acceptable
I totally understand that, don't know what you mean by half way or not working parts, no one, including the shop would put those types of parts on your car....Would you want that stuff on your car? I'm sorry. I paid $30k for this car. I'm a little picky.
You're very complex Lindsey, you didn't mind driving around with some huge dent in your 1/4 though? Which by the way is a welded on part, and I would much rather repair than replace a 1/4 or any welded on part if possible, as would anyone that works on cars would tell you...Collision repair isn't what it was 20 or 30 years ago (and yes I've been doing this more than 20 years)...a good shop will not be 'bondoing' things together...when that quarter is replaced what do you think makes the transition between panels? And to answer your question, I have a truck that cost half again as much as your car, and I would have zero problem with used parts, if I trusted the shop that was fixing it. Here's why, if your vehicle was totaled, it goes to a salvage yard, now do you see anything wrong with someone buying an UNDAMAGED part off of your totaled vehicle and putting it on their 07 Honda? Course not...In fact, ask any body shop what they would rather put on a car, a good used door, or a new one...Now, would I want, ''Jimmy Joe Jack" working in his back yard to do it no...and since I'm in the business, and know what to look for I'd ask to see the parts prior to them prepping them to go on my vehicle..other than that, I'd not have an issue, with any quality used bolt on parts...According to this guy
Which guy? Ican't make a claim for any diminished value payment. The state of Virginia does allow for this, but my policy doesn't seem to.
:? Sorry Lindsey, what do you mean by that? Your policy specifically excludes first party DV is that it? I'll do some checking on VA and let you know...I'm a little lost re: what the stand off is exactly about...you wanting it totaled and them not?
Adjuster? What adjuster? I have not seen or heard from anyone representing the insurance company as an 'adjuster'
Welp, that explains you not getting busted on that prior damage...Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 02:51 am Post Subject:
Lindsey, here's some info I found for you, you're not going to like it I don't think...just remember I didn't write it, just trying to give you the information you need.
This is directly from your states Dept of Ins website:
http://www.scc.virginia.gov/division/boi/webpages/inspagedocs/autoguide06.pdf
[quote]2. I recently had an accident in my five year old car and the
company wants to repair it by using used parts. Can they
do this?
Yes. The company may have your car repaired with parts of like
kind and quality, which would include used parts.[/quote]
Now could be you have paid extra premium and purchased an endorcement that says otherwise, but I'd have to see that in writing to help you with whether or not used parts apply.
3. Under the terms of the physical damage coverage in my
automobile policy, do I have the right to make the decision
as to whether to repair, replace, or to receive cash for my
wrecked auto?
No. That is one of the rights given to the company by your
policy.
Ott, Oh, this keeps getting worse!
17. May an insurance company use non-original
"Disclosing" aftermarket parts and only using them with the insured's permission are two totally different things...manufactured parts or “after market” parts in preparing
an estimate for my vehicle that was involved in an
accident?
Yes. The company may have your car repaired with after
market parts. However, they must disclose on the estimate or
on a separate document that the estimate is based on the use
of after market parts.
Far as I know all states require disclosure.
Here's another thing to keep in mind before you move your vehicle "IF" the shop it's at now (or that you move it to) is a preferred shop that is:
22. I am dissatisfied with the repair work done to my vehicle
by a repair facility I chose. What obligation does the
insurance company have to correct this?
The insurance company is responsible for paying for repairs
to your vehicle. Since you chose the repair facility, you are
responsible for making sure the job is done satisfactorily.
Virginia: In Bickel v. Nationwide Mutual Ins. Co., 143 S.E.2d 903 (Va. 1965), the Supreme Court refused to compensate an insured for the loss of his new car warranty because the policy did not make such an agreement and the diminution in value was not recoverable under the policy.
Virginia Code § 38.2-510 - Unfair claim settlement practices
C. 1. No insurer shall prepare or use an estimate of the cost of automobile repairs based on the use of an after market part, as defined herein, unless:
The insurer discloses to the claimant in writing either on the estimate or in a separate document attached to the estimate the following information:
"THIS ESTIMATE HAS BEEN PREPARED BASED ON THE USE OF AUTOMOBILE PARTS NOT MADE BY THE ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER. PARTS USED IN THE REPAIR OF YOUR VEHICLE BY OTHER THAN THE ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER ARE REQUIRED TO BE AT LEAST EQUAL IN LIKE KIND AND QUALITY IN TERMS OF FIT, QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE TO THE ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER PARTS THEY ARE REPLACING."
2. "After market part" as used in this section shall mean an automobile part which is not made by the original equipment manufacturer and which is a sheet metal or plastic part generally constituting the exterior of a motor vehicle, including inner and outer panels.
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