by Guest » Thu Mar 18, 2010 02:21 am
My wife was involved in an accident. She entered an intersection just as the light had turned orange. A car took a left turn into her. It was raining. My wife called 911. A cop came. Talked to the other party. Came to my wife, asked her if she had someone who could pick her up. Yes. But she protested that he (the cop) had not taken her statement. Very well, tell me, he said. My wife told him her side of the story. The other driver was standing close by. That person insisted that my wife ran a red light. My wife said no. The cop said he had taken down both sides of the story. The other driver left. The cop offered to drive my wife to a nearby mall where she would wait for me. En route he told her that he didn't wanna say it in front of the other driver because he didn't wanna rile that person up, but, the cop said, it was that other driver's fault. Even if the light had turned red the other driver was obliged to make sure the intersection was clear before taking the left turn. That was that. We called our insurance company. They asked us if we wanted to file through them or pursue the other party ourselves. We didn't think we had the capacity to pursue this thing ourselves. So we went with our insurance company. A day later that other driver directly (that is, not through his insurance company) approached our insurance company and filed a claim. My insurance agent asked him to work through his insurance company. Meanwhile the car had been taken to a body shop that our insurance company works with. We have a 99 Acura 3.0 CL. With only 75,000 miles and in excellent condition. The body shop came back after a couple of days and said just the cost of fixing the body and the front suspension that had taken a hit was about $5300. The car had been hit on the side with the front tire area/driver side door the main impact zone. But the damage had also knocked out the front bumper. They had not disassembled the car because they figured the cost already implied that the car was totaled. Our insurance agent confirmed that. Today she called with an offer: $7200. Our $500 deductible would be subtracted from that and refunded to the extent my insurance company is able to recoup the cost from the other company. I checked the blue book value. The retail value came out to be $6300. I am disappointed because my car was in excellent condition, very few miles. Plus, for those who recall the 3.0 CL line, the styling is unique. Acura doesn't make this car anymore. We planned to keep this car for another five years at least. Our insurance agent really wanted to wrap this thing today. I had a difficult time getting like a couple of days extension. They will continue resolving this through the other insurance company. What I am grappling with is this:
1. Based on my (long!) description of events, are the chances good that my insurance company will be able to recoup cost from the other party.
2. Is my insurance company offering me a fair price? Nada.com $7625. Kbb.com $6300. Autotrader has listings that average $6780 for cars with an average of 102,000 miles. My insurance company is offering $7200 for a car with 72K miles. (They are also offering an additional $500 as compensation for title/other fees, but I figure that is separate from the actual cost.) Should I be doing something else to research my car cost?
3. My insurance company wants me to sign off on the offer so they can give my car up to salvage. Is it okay if I take whatever time is required for due diligence? Also, can I release my car to salvage and still maintain negotiating leverage?
4. If I play hardball over an extra $500, will that embitter my insurance company and incline them to punishing me more in terms of how they negotiate with the other driver's insurance company, or in terms of jacking up my insurance rates?
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
1. Based on my (long!) description of events, are the chances good that my insurance company will be able to recoup cost from the other party.
2. Is my insurance company offering me a fair price? Nada.com $7625. Kbb.com $6300. Autotrader has listings that average $6780 for cars with an average of 102,000 miles. My insurance company is offering $7200 for a car with 72K miles. (They are also offering an additional $500 as compensation for title/other fees, but I figure that is separate from the actual cost.) Should I be doing something else to research my car cost?
3. My insurance company wants me to sign off on the offer so they can give my car up to salvage. Is it okay if I take whatever time is required for due diligence? Also, can I release my car to salvage and still maintain negotiating leverage?
4. If I play hardball over an extra $500, will that embitter my insurance company and incline them to punishing me more in terms of how they negotiate with the other driver's insurance company, or in terms of jacking up my insurance rates?
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 03:03 am Post Subject:
but, the cop said, it was that other driver's fault. Even if the light had turned red the other driver was obliged to make sure the intersection was clear before taking the left turn.
Okay so was he cited for failure to yeild?
I checked the blue book value. The retail value came out to be $6300
Kelly's is a pretty inaccurate source. I am coming up with NADA base line value at $7600. Do you know what '99 CL's are selling for in your area?
Acura doesn't make this car anymore.
Doesn't matter. It doesn't change the value.
Based on my (long!) description of events, are the chances good that my insurance company will be able to recoup cost from the other party.
Perhaps. As I asked earlier, what does the police report say? Was the other driver cited for anything?
Is my insurance company offering me a fair price? Nada.com $7625. Kbb.com $6300. Autotrader has listings that average $6780 for cars with an average of 102,000 miles. My insurance company is offering $7200 for a car with 72K miles. (They are also offering an additional $500 as compensation for title/other fees, but I figure that is separate from the actual cost.) Should I be doing something else to research my car cost?
Based on your description it sounds fair to me, but I have no idea what condition your car really is in. Go to autotrader.com or cars.com and research what a CL is selling for in your area. Are those sale prices based on a vehicle(s) that is very comparable to yours? Ask yourself, if you were buying your car, would you pay those x amount of dollars?
3. My insurance company wants me to sign off on the offer so they can give my car up to salvage. Is it okay if I take whatever time is required for due diligence?
There should be a reasonable amount of time, but don't milk it.
Also, can I release my car to salvage and still maintain negotiating leverage?
Nope. Once you agree to the settlement, you're done unless you plan on retaining the salvage and keeping the car.
4. If I play hardball over an extra $500, will that embitter my insurance company and incline them to punishing me more in terms of how they negotiate with the other driver's insurance company, or in terms of jacking up my insurance rates?
Just do the research I offered and perhaps you will answer your own question, but they are not going to retaliate by raising your rates.
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 04:08 am Post Subject:
Seems like they are offering you higher then the middle of NADA and KBB. Almost what KBB has as the retail value. Why would this not be a fair offer?
You can allow them to move the vehicle and not accept their offer. If the vehicle stays at a towing yard they will only pay for storage for a few more days. After that and you can either pay the difference or have the vehicle moved yourself to a place of your choosing. You'd still be responsible for any additional charges. They simply want to move it some place where they don't charge storage. You still own the vehicle.
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:57 am Post Subject:
Until you sign the title, (or poa's) you own the vehicle. Regardless of where it is...they cannot sell the salvage until that is done...
Just so happens my daughter has a 98 with less than 100k as well...however in her case, I wouldn't call her vehicle prestine...I'd call it average condition...
From what you've posted, I'd say their value is pretty spot on...as Trench suggested just do a little more research. Shoot just google 'want to buy 1999 acura cl-v6' see what you find as comps...
It's up to you if you want to fight for the additional 3-500.
Have you had or made any contact with the other carrier? Have they accepted liability? If so you can always allow them to value your vehicle..and go with the carrier that has come up with a higher ACv.
As to the subrogation potential...we really don't know enough about the accident to give a good answer. As Trench asked..what does the police report say? Was this intersection on camera? If so, that should 'seal the deal'..were there any independent witnesses at all? What is your adjuster saying? Have they denied the other party? do you know what your states negligence laws are? (comparative, pure comparative, 51/49 rule?)
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 02:20 pm Post Subject:
Thanks much for all your replies.
@Trench:
It was raining. It was a busy intersection but no witnesses were enlisted as far as I know. After the accident my wife and the driver had relocated to spots some distance apart so my wife does not know the exact conversation that happened between that driver and the cop. However since the cop didn't make any mention of a citation to my wife I am assuming that he didn't cite the other driver. The cop told my wife that his report will be accessible to us via their website in about 10 days. I will ask my agent if the police report is available to her.
As per Autotrader, in a 200 mile radius, similar cars with an average of 102K miles are selling for $6780. My car has 75K miles - it was in excellent condition. Went to car.com. No listings in my area but in the 250 mile radius similar cars with an average of 107K miles are selling for an average of $6719
@tcope:
"Seems like they are offering you higher then the middle of NADA and KBB. Almost what KBB has as the retail value. Why would this not be a fair offer?"
I guess, looking at the listings in autotrader.com/car.com, what it boils down to is: do 30000 miles equate to about $500. My car is 75K, 30K less than a similar car listed out there and my agent seems to be offering me about $500 for that 30K difference. Is that good enough?
@lori
No, I have not contacted the other carrier. My insurance is handling all that. What I know is that the other driver had directly filed a claim with my insurance. My insurance agent asked the driver to work this through his own insurance. Based on that it seems the other insurance company hasn't yet got involved. Can my insurance company only file a claim with the other company after I have accepted their offer?
I don't believe the intersection was on a camera. No independent witnesses that I know of. It was raining pretty hard. I have not been in touch with any adjuster - only my insurance agent. They have asked the other party to work through their insurance company. My state, Indiana, has a "comparative negligence" law. Which, I guess, means that blame for an accident may be split between the parties involved.
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 03:03 pm Post Subject:
I guess, looking at the listings in autotrader.com/car.com,
Is Autotrader not listing "asking" prices, not "selling" prices? If I ask someone to pay me $10,000 for my 1995 Escort it does not make it worth $10,000. That is, you can expect someone to take less then the listed price on Autotrader. I can't say that this would make up the difference but it seems close to me.Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:05 pm Post Subject:
Can my insurance company only file a claim with the other company after I have accepted their offer?
Actually they have to make a payment to have a vested interest. They wouldn't have any subrogation rights unless and until they made this payment. In fact they can't send a subro demand out to this other carrier until they know how much. They could put them on notice if they want...but most adjusters wait until the claims paid. In fact since your vehicle is a total, they can't send a demand until the salvage is sold..because, (again) they don't know how much they are owed, until this happens.I have not been in touch with any adjuster - only my insurance agent
WHAT? Are you sure? I've NEVER heard of an agent handling a total loss...some captive agent companys give their agents 'some' draft authority for small one party losses, but I've never heard of an agent handling any two party losses, and most certainly not a total.....Why have you not talked to an adjuster from your company? You've talked with no one from the claims dept? Who is determining this value then?RE: The mileage on your vehicle. Nada adds $1800.00 for this mileage (75k)...so he is allowing you 'extra' for this mileage...as to the ones you've found for 6700 or so, you have to remember those are also 'asking' prices...
I don't know where you live...but just did some quick googling and I found this one on Craigs list...and this one is at a Dealer! and is their "asking" price..
1999 Acura 3.0 CL V6 Red With Tan Leather Int. With Only 93k Nice Car - $6450 (Lakewood,NJ)
found these on on cars.oogle I tried to find same or close mileage, several are newer than yours
Summary: Used 2001 Acura CL Type S, 75,000 miles, Black, Gold, Grey, Orange
For sale by: For Sale by Private Party
Posted: 3 weeks ago on Facebook
Description
2001 Acura CL Type S. Gold/Orange with black leather and grey wood grain interior.
75,000 miles, asking 7,000 obo
$6,888
2001 Acura CL, 87,051 miles, Red
EveryCarListed.com - Deerfield Beach, FL
and WOW! check out this one!
links to partner1999 Acura CL Coupe
$6,995
1999 Acura CL, 61,000 miles
AutoShopper.com - Runnemede, NJ
IMO, they have made a fair offer...the vehicles are out there...it just takes a lot of time to find them...And for everyone you find that is 'x' amount higher, they can find some (like these) that are lower...You do what you think is right, but personally I think they've made you a solid/fair offer..
I still want to know about this 'agent' handling claims... :wink:
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:45 am Post Subject:
WHAT? Are you sure? I've NEVER heard of an agent handling a total loss...
In most if not all cases ( I have never known a vehicle owner to ever speak with an adjuster ) when the vehicle goes to a DRP shop, there is no adjuster ( outeside ) and the agent communicates with the total loss department on the settlement. In the 2 accidents I have had in the last 2 years (not my fault) I only talked with my agent.
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 01:28 am Post Subject:
Thanks much tcope, Lori, Trench.
You all have certainly helped me "accept" my fate as far as my totaled car goes. It was in excellent condition. I had contrived to not put too much mileage on it because I wanted to keep it. But that's how it goes I guess. At least I know now that I am getting fair compensation for it.
@Lori: Thanks for digging up some "comforting" examples. I live in Indiana. With respect to: I still want to know about this 'agent' handling claims...
She calls herself a claims agent. The reason I have only talked to her must have something to do with what Trench says above.
Another question. I have a policy that gives me 30 day car rental. When this problem happened I got a kick-off letter from this claims agent confirming that I had 30 days of car rental while I was trying to get my car repaired or replaced. When pushing me to make a quick decision on her totaling offer she said that I had 10 days of car rental after the offer had been made (I was able to delay renting the car but will be doing so in a couple of days). I had a spat with her over this twist in car rental provision. I refused to accept it. Does this switch from 30 day rental policy to a 10 day one as we move to the post totaling phase make sense to you guys?
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 02:35 am Post Subject:
The reason I have only talked to her must have something to do with what Trench says above.
Thats pretty much it. There is no adjuster when your car goes to a Direct Repair Shop, because the shop employees write the estimate and send it to the insurance company. If you had chosen to take the car elsewhere (which is your right, you are under no obligation to take it to shop the insurance company works with) an adjuster would have been assigned to meet with you or the shop to settle the claim.
At least now you know how the process works.
Normally once an acceptance of the offer is made, yes. However, this rule is completely a bendable. But remember, you pay for your rental car coverage, and once it's used up, it's up.
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 04:45 am Post Subject:
Am thinking of buying a new car. I guess my insurance policy will change right away to accommodate this change in car? But will my insurance quote me inflated rates now because of this incident which my agent told me might not be resolved until a couple of months or so? (Of course, I am expecting the resolution to be in our favor but we won't know until later.)
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