by ncapron » Tue Nov 04, 2008 01:41 am
I have a loan through one of those Title Cash places. I borrowed $1200.00 and have made payments totaling $650.00. I was at no fault in the accident and the other drivers ins. company said the car is totaled according to Missouri law and will pay $3600...I want to keep the car b/c it is still drivable and I need a car for work. To buy it back is $750.00...The ins. company offered the lienholder $1600.00 to pay it off so that I will have enough left to fix the car, but they will not budge....although they do not know that the pay off is $3600
My question is....Can the Insurance Company tell the lienholder that $1600 is all they will pay and leave me owing the balance and still keep the car? Also, does the ins. company have to tell them that the payoff is $3600 or is that between me and them?
Sorry this was so long :)
My question is....Can the Insurance Company tell the lienholder that $1600 is all they will pay and leave me owing the balance and still keep the car? Also, does the ins. company have to tell them that the payoff is $3600 or is that between me and them?
Sorry this was so long :)
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 03:20 pm Post Subject:
I am in Missouri. So if I understand...I am the third party right?
And the title can be changed to a salvage title even though Title Max has possesion of it right now right?
Can someone verify this in the the State of Missouri?
The adjuster is telling me that if he does not pay the lienholder that they can come back and make him pay the money again to them and I don't understand how they could possibly do that...It doesn't make any sense to me!
Thanks again for all the information.
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 04:37 pm Post Subject:
Hmmmmmmm, I don't think the lienholder cares whether it's a 1st, 2nd, 3rd or other party claim.
The lienholder wants their loan paid. Either in cash now because the car is wrecked or continue making your monthly payment.
Now...and...correct me if I'm wrong...once the auto insurance company has determined the wrecked vehicle is a total loss the option of "fixing" the car is off the table. I don't mean you can't get the car fixed. I mean the insurance company isn't going to authorize repairs to commence and be on the hook for repairs which may, more than likely, exceed the value of the car.
They'll pay the value of the car to the lienholder first, up to the outstanding loan, and the balance of the proceeds to the insured.
Whether he buys the car back from the insurance company as salvage or has his claim reduced by the salvage value and has the vehicle repaired is a separate issue.
He has an outstanding loan of $2,500.
The insurance company isn't going to write the insured a check for $3,600 with a lien on the car....are they? Would they?
Isn't the lienholder first in line to get paid?
And wouldn't the lienholder have a legitment claim against the insurance company for not paying for their loss if the insured didn't make his monthly payment anymore after getting the $3,600 check?
I'm just asking.
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 01:16 am Post Subject:
I am in Missouri.
SO AM I ! :)So if I understand...I am the third party right?
Correct!And the title can be changed to a salvage title even though Title Max has possesion of it right now right?
YepCan someone verify this in the the State of Missouri?
Well, I've been doing this for over 20 years in Missouri...The adjuster is telling me that if he does not pay the lienholder that they can come back and make him pay the money again to them and I don't understand how they could possibly do that
He is mis-informed...this is true with first party claims where there is a contractual obligation to protect the lein holder as a third party they have NO obligation to protect this lein holder...none, zero, naaaaadaaaa....It doesn't make any sense to me!
That's because it's wrong!Hmmmmmmm, I don't think the lienholder cares whether it's a 1st, 2nd, 3rd or other party claim
Well of course they don't care...they don't however have a contract with the person that hit his cars ins. carrier saying they MUST be protected..as an insured does..Now...and...correct me if I'm wrong...once the auto insurance company has determined the wrecked vehicle is a total loss the option of "fixing" the car is off the table. I don't mean you can't get the car fixed. I mean the insurance company isn't going to authorize repairs to commence and be on the hook for repairs which may, more than likely, exceed the value of the car.
Correct in most all cases..They'll pay the value of the car to the lienholder first, up to the outstanding loan, and the balance of the proceeds to the insured.
yes to the INSURED minus their deductible of course...but this guy isn't the insured...if it's an insured, then the lein holder will not allow him to keep or buy back the salvage in most cases (less money for them) I've seen two lein holder allow this...in over 20 years...course if the proceeds of the loss pay the loan off then they couldn't care less...Whether he buys the car back from the insurance company as salvage or has his claim reduced by the salvage value and has the vehicle repaired is a separate issue.
If he's an insured (1st party) yes...He has an outstanding loan of $2,500.
nope not an insured but he's not an insured...The insurance company isn't going to write the insured a check for $3,600 with a lien on the car....are they? Would they?
Isn't the lienholder first in line to get paid?
Not if he's a claimant, and not if they are not obtaining the salvage, (thus taking title)...And wouldn't the lienholder have a legitment claim against the insurance company for not paying for their loss if the insured didn't make his monthly payment anymore after getting the $3,600 check?
Absolutely ''if'' it were an insured..if it's an insured, the insuring contract calls for the lein holders protection...therefore if an adjuster made payment (even for a repair) and did not protect that l/h then the l/h can come back to the carrier and MAKE them pay it again to the l/h...I've seen this happen..then of course the ins. company subro's their own insured...Let's say, an insured get's into a wreck, ins. company pays 3k to repair the vehicle to the INSURED only...the insured keeps the money doesn't repair the vehicle the vehicle is later repo'd the l/h will come back to the ins carrier, and say , 'hey we have a claim on this car' ins. company says, we already paid this a year ago, l/h says, 'show us a copy of the draft where we were protected' ut oh, adjuster screwed up did not protect them so they have to now for a second time pay this l/h direct for the damage, and as I said they will subro their insured for this second payment...(although it was totally their fault)...Claimant, or 3rd party has no such contact with this carrier....the only obligation this carrier has is to protect THEIR insured by paying what he is legally responsible for...ie the damage to our buddy Ncapron's car...they have zero contractual or legal obligation to protect his leinholder. I have paid many many many third party claimants the total loss (less salvage) or the repair to their vehicle...now if we (as the ins. company) are obtaining salvage then I do have to involve the l/h but not to protect them only because I have to have a clean title to sell this car...if they hold title or have a lien on the title then they are protected only as a by-product of me needing a clean, released title...
This adjuster is confusing 1st and 3rd party claims and the obligations he or she has to each...and they are just flat dead wrong...I would insist that this adjuster show me in their policy under the Property Damage liability portion where it says that they have to pay the lein holder...they'll never find it...because it does not exsist...
Another thing, (check this I could be wrong, but I don't think I am) I believe on owner retained salvage vehicles in this state that are over a certain number of years old (I think seven) then reporting them as salvage vehicles to the DMV is optional by the carrier...now that doesn't mean you might not have 'some' obligation with the state I dont' know you'll have to check that with the DMV...
Finally, it is my opinion and my experience that since you are owner retaining this vehicle and this is a third party claim, the carrier can pay you directly and must pay you directly....for this loss...again, ask them to show you (we are the SHOW ME STATE remember) where it says they must pay your lein holder...make them send you a copy... :roll:
Thanks again for all the information.
You are welcome, what part of the state are you from? And which company is this?Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 01:56 am Post Subject:
I am in Southeast (Sikeston)....WOW! I apologioze for asking again but I want to absolute %100 sure that I have this correct...
So I am the third party because the insurance company is the other driver's insurance right?
And one more thing...I can still keep the car (salvage) without the other driver's ins. co. having the Title in their possesion right?
Because they are telling me that they have to have the Title to sell the car back to me for salvage.
Thanks again :D
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:31 am Post Subject:
Thanks Lori for the detailed explanation!
Makes perfect sense now! :wink:
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:06 am Post Subject:
So I am the third party because the insurance company is the other driver's insurance right?
RIGHT, if it were your policy or if you were the insured it would be first party...And one more thing...I can still keep the car (salvage) without the other driver's ins. co. having the Title in their possesion right?
right, because you are 'retaining' the salvage, they are not 'obtaining' it...they may have a company policy where they notify the state, but that's it...Because they are telling me that they have to have the Title to sell the car back to me for salvage
They are incorrect, unless they are using that for identification to make sure you are the owner...are they telling you they need to take possession of the title? That's nuts...tell ya' what why don't you contact the Mo Dept of Ins. or the DMV (both have web sites)....ask them if you RETAIN the salvage does this have to happen...better yet, here ya go....here's a link to the form they fill out (if it's necessary I'm not 100% sure it is necessary in your case)... http://dor.mo.gov/mvdl/motorv/forms/5043.pdf
and about 15 years ago...
The Honorable Raymond W. “Bill” Hand
Representative
District 90
State Capitol Building
Room 101-F
Jefferson City, Missouri 65101
Dear Representative Hand:
This opinion letter is in response to your question asking:
Does Section 301.227 RSMo. require that the insurer of a vehicle, deemed by them to be a “total loss”, have to obtain the title to the vehicle from the insured, who elects to keep the vehicle, even though it is deemed by the insurer a “total loss” and procure a salvage title under this section of law before transferring the title back to the insured?
A copy of Section 301.227, RSMo 1986, is attached hereto as Appendix A. [Footnote 1] This section concerns, “[w]henever a vehicle is sold for salvage, dismantling or rebuilding....” (Emphasis added.) Section 301.227.1.
In the situation about which you are concerned, the owner of a vehicle which has been deemed a “total loss” retains the vehicle. Rather than transferring ownership of the vehicle, which has been deemed a total loss, to the insurance company, the owner chooses to retain the vehicle and accepts as a settlement the amount owed by the insurance company less the salvage value. Because the owner has chosen to retain the vehicle, the amount paid by the insurance company to the owner is reduced by the salvage value.
The statute applies whenever a vehicle is “sold” for salvage, dismantling or rebuilding. The word “sell” has been defined by the Missouri courts as follows:
The ordinary meaning of the word “sell” as stated in Webster's New International Dictionary, 2nd Ed., Unabridged, is: “To sell is to transfer to another for a price, usually to be paid in money.” Dimick v. Noonan, 242 S.W.2d 599, 602 (Mo.App.1951).
In the situation about which you are concerned, the vehicle has been retained by the owner. There is no transfer to another of the vehicle. The amount paid by the insurance company to the owner has simply been reduced by the salvage value. Since there is no transfer by the owner, the vehicle has not been “sold” and therefore such section does not require the insurance company to obtain the title to the vehicle from the insured.
Very truly yours,
William L. Webster
Attorney General
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:47 pm Post Subject:
my car was recently totalled. The balance of the loan is
$5339.86. The payoff amount is $5384.07. the loan was for 84 months, i paid for 20 months. the insurance company paid them $5361.96 is there no interest returned for the next 64 months
dianai
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:59 am Post Subject:
doubt it, you pay the interest in each payment. The interest is calculated daily...up to the payment due date, then starts all over again...
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