by NinjaJ » Thu Apr 23, 2009 09:19 pm
What can I do?!
I was involved in a minor accident. Other person's fault. Claimed to his insurance not mine. His insurance picked a shop, and I took my van there. My van still works. Collison place was estimating totals for just outside work to be around $2522. But said the way he hit me, that there was internal damge to the steering column(they don't know the extent, because they won't take apart the dash), said it would more than likely be considered non-repairable.
So then today the adjuster went out to inspect my van. Calls to tell me that they are going to consider it a total loss because of the hail damage. Hail damage?! I ask. But that's not even part of hte wrecked part. I don't want the hail damage fixed. Just the part the guy broke! She said she knows, but the hail damage is being taken into account for my vehicle's total value. After talking with another adjuster yesterday, I know they only fix/pay for repairs if the cost of the vehicle's damage does NOT exceed 65% of the vehicle's total value. I asked if I could take it to get a second opinion... to a different cheaper collision place. They told me no, that the adjuster was the second opinion. The adjuster I talked to yesterday is supposed to call me in 24-48 hours with a settlement offer. Just by talking to them, I know they are going to completely low ball me. I asked them who/what they use to figure up the value. She said CCC, and they don't use KBB, NADA or Edmunds. CCC is their "own" thing. The company is Farmers.
This really makes me mad. Because I KNOW they are going to fix their insured's car, and leave me without anything. I have a 2000 Dodge Caravan, with 11356 miles on it. Which is actually low for the year. The hail damage is minor to say the least. Other than that, before wrecked there was only minor/normal wear and tear. KBB marks it, even with the hail damage, at $3600, NADA is $3800(not even considering that the tires are practically brandnew,and it has a cd/mp3 player in it), and Edmunds is $2689.
I would be just fine and let it go for $3500 to $4000. But I don't think they are going to give me that.
What am I supposed to do? Can I request that amount before they call me with a number? Or when they give me a number can I tell them no, and that I will take one of the amounts I just mentioned?
There is no loan on the vehicle, it's mine. I can't afford to be making car payments on something. I've searched craigslist, autotrader and cars.com for something close to mine,a nd I cna't find anything. At least NOTHING near what I paid for what I've got. Everything is way more now, even vans that have WAY more milage than mine, and are even older.
This is really depressing me and irritating me. I have no idea what to do.
I was involved in a minor accident. Other person's fault. Claimed to his insurance not mine. His insurance picked a shop, and I took my van there. My van still works. Collison place was estimating totals for just outside work to be around $2522. But said the way he hit me, that there was internal damge to the steering column(they don't know the extent, because they won't take apart the dash), said it would more than likely be considered non-repairable.
So then today the adjuster went out to inspect my van. Calls to tell me that they are going to consider it a total loss because of the hail damage. Hail damage?! I ask. But that's not even part of hte wrecked part. I don't want the hail damage fixed. Just the part the guy broke! She said she knows, but the hail damage is being taken into account for my vehicle's total value. After talking with another adjuster yesterday, I know they only fix/pay for repairs if the cost of the vehicle's damage does NOT exceed 65% of the vehicle's total value. I asked if I could take it to get a second opinion... to a different cheaper collision place. They told me no, that the adjuster was the second opinion. The adjuster I talked to yesterday is supposed to call me in 24-48 hours with a settlement offer. Just by talking to them, I know they are going to completely low ball me. I asked them who/what they use to figure up the value. She said CCC, and they don't use KBB, NADA or Edmunds. CCC is their "own" thing. The company is Farmers.
This really makes me mad. Because I KNOW they are going to fix their insured's car, and leave me without anything. I have a 2000 Dodge Caravan, with 11356 miles on it. Which is actually low for the year. The hail damage is minor to say the least. Other than that, before wrecked there was only minor/normal wear and tear. KBB marks it, even with the hail damage, at $3600, NADA is $3800(not even considering that the tires are practically brandnew,and it has a cd/mp3 player in it), and Edmunds is $2689.
I would be just fine and let it go for $3500 to $4000. But I don't think they are going to give me that.
What am I supposed to do? Can I request that amount before they call me with a number? Or when they give me a number can I tell them no, and that I will take one of the amounts I just mentioned?
There is no loan on the vehicle, it's mine. I can't afford to be making car payments on something. I've searched craigslist, autotrader and cars.com for something close to mine,a nd I cna't find anything. At least NOTHING near what I paid for what I've got. Everything is way more now, even vans that have WAY more milage than mine, and are even older.
This is really depressing me and irritating me. I have no idea what to do.
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:23 pm Post Subject:
I handled a claim for a car with similar damage. Some prior damage but I think it was a 1995 vehicle. So pretty much any damage is going to cause it to be a total loss.
65% of the value is going to total out the vehicle? While they can handle it as a total at any amount, 65% is pretty low. Usually carriers consider vehicles a total loss at 70% minimum and many others at 80%.
Personally, if it was close, which might be the case with your vehicle, I'd certainly see what I as the adjuster could do to make the vehicle repairable. But then I'm inspecting the damage, writing it up and adjusting the claim. So I could be a little more aggressive on salvage parts and the like. But the way Farmers is set up, someone different handles every aspect of the claim (for this simple accident you are probably going to have at least 3 adjusters handling just your vehicle).
If you want to keep the vehicle and have it repaired you could try the following. It may fall on deaf ears but it's worth a try. How are they applying the hail damage to the value of the vehicle? Did they have an appraiser state the hail damage would cost $xxx.xx and then they subtracted that repair cost from the value of the vehicle? if so, that is really not the best way to determine the value. Your vehicle is 9 years old... as such the value of the vehicle is going to consider that there is some damage on it. If they subtract the full cost of repairs then they are going to be left with a vehicle in much better then average condition which is going to also increase the value. But again, they are only going to go by an average value (a vehicle with some damage, not perfect). So counting the full cost of repairs for prior damage yet using an average value is an apples to oranges comparison. This argument may fall on deaf ears so you might want to try moving up the chain of command with the same argument.
You can also mention that you feel their repair cost is high and that you could find another shop willing to knock a few bucks off the repair cost to get the job. You could even ask about having the shop complete a Contract for Repair. This is basically an agreement from the shop that they will repair all the damage from the accident with no supplements for the amount they have on their estimate (less then the amount where Farmers consider it a total loss). You mentioned this before and Farmers rejected it... here is why. You could get a shop to _say_ they will repair it for any amount. This does not mean they can make the proper repairs for this amount. Farmers can be held responsible if this is done. People complaint all the time that insurance companies write up repair costs for the lowest amount possible. If that is true, then your now going to argue against that claim. If this comes back into Farmers lap for some reason how are they going to say that they honored a lower estimate when they wrote one up for less that is suppose to be a rock bottom repair cost. The difference is the Contract for Repair. Now you have a shop taking responsibility in saying that they will make all repairs needed for $xxx.xx. I went back and read your post again. I don't think your going to be able to find a shop willing to do this as it seems like there is just to great the possibility of hidden damages for a shop to make this commitment. Also, $2500 plus expensive hidden damage is just too close to the $3500 value you place on the vehicle.
I think your best bet is to let this vehicle go and use the money to buy another.
You need to obtain the CCC report and review it for accuracy. Check the options and mileage of your vehicle to make sure everything was considered. Make sure the 3 main vehicles listed on comparison are close to yours. If not, Farmers can ask CCC to perform a manual search in a larger area for more comparable vehicles.
If Farmers offers $3500 plus taxes and other charges, you can throw in a few hundred and get a much better vehicle with lower mileage. In otherwords, trade up.
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:48 am Post Subject:
I agree with everything you are saying.
I also agree that 65% is VERY low, but that's what I was told by 2 different adjusters. I was even called yesterday by the total loss department BEFORE anyone went out to go look at my van. The of course, when the adjuster called me today after looking at my van, the first thing she told me was that "we are going to count your van as a total loss, because of the hail damage."
That's when I got shocked, and said 'What?!" I didn't WANT the hail damage fixed, and it's not severe hail damage to begin with, it's also no where near the area that needs to be fixed. My hail damage should have NOTHING to do with it. She said she "understood" that, but they are taking it into account for the total cost of my vehicle. Yet, no one has still told me what they think my vehicle is worth. Yet, somehow they are able to write it off as a total loss, when I've already been told, a total loss to them counts as costs that go beyond 65% of the TMV of my vehicle.
When I asked yesterday if I could take it to get a second opinion or a cheaper place, they said no. That the adjuster that was going out to look at it was the second opinion. I then asked the adjuster again today if I could take it somewhere else. She said no, also. I also told her that I had been searching for 3 days for a vehicle in the area that was even close to what I currently have, and there is nothing. Ok I lie, there is ONE, but I'm still not even sure if they have a comparable stereo system. But so far the outside, inside and mileage are comparable to my current vehicle, and it's selling for $3450. But it's the ONLY one. If they give me less than $3500, I cannot afford to get something else. Especially if that car is gone. Anything else, I'm either going to have to down grade or get a loan. My van wasn't/isn't a beater/POS.
Unless they can give $3500-$4000 for it, I'm going to have keep declining their settlement until we can reach an agreement. Since I haven't gotten that phone call yet, I don't know what they are offering.
I was also wondering if they can't first give me what I need, can I go get my van, since it does still drive just fine, and use it until they can figure out that they need to fix it or pay me for it.
It wasn't my fault, and it's not my insurance and they are making me feel like the bad guy here.
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 09:53 am Post Subject:
What am I supposed to do? Can I request that amount before they call me with a number?
I don't think that would be a wise thing to do, rather you may wait for the adjuster to come-up with the first offer. If you instigate the negotiation you may be locking the fate of the claim at lower value because they would always try to negotiate the value to a lower level.
I'd rather suggest that you use the time for homework to gather as much information as you can to negotiate the claim value with the claim adjuster.
~Jeremy
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:12 pm Post Subject:
Couple of things..first you're misunderstanding (i think) the 'hail' thing "
we are going to count your van as a total loss, because of the hail damage."
What they are saying is the prior unrepaired damage (hail) has reduced your vehicles value...by a percentage of that prior damage (hail) if two exact vehicles were next to each other one with hail one without which is worth more? Of course the one without the hail...did you file a claim for this hail damage and get paid for it? When did the hail occur?My hail damage should have NOTHING to do with it.
As I said, you surely have to understand that a vehicle with hail damage has a lower value than one without it...same with any UNREPAIRED prior damage....Another question are you sure this 9 year old vehicle has 11,356 ? Did you forget a number?
I was also wondering if they can't first give me what I need, can I go get my van, since it does still drive just fine, and use it until they can figure out that they need to fix it or pay me for it.
What about the steering issue?You can always file this with your carrier under your collision coverage, if they repair it or make you a better offer, take theirs and they will subrogate farmers, it will be a non-chargeable accident against you so your rates wouldn't be affected...
65% huh? What state is this? Must be a state regulation....
Ask them for a copy of the estimate for the hail damage and ask if they are subtracting the entire amount or a percentage of that hail repair estimate from your vehicles value....Also I ask again, did you turn in this hail claim when it happened? Were you paid (by your company) for the hail damage? and When did the hail storm occur.
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 03:40 pm Post Subject:
The hail storm occured March 31,2009, I was out of town. It's a 9 year old vehicle. I don't care about some minor hail damage. I never planned on selling the vehicle. So I also never claimed it to my insurance. Regardless, I only have liability on the van. And of course I must've forgot a number., it's 113,560. I completely understand that the hail damage lowers the vehicle's vaule. But I have a feeling they are going to make it a big deal, when it's only minor hail damage. Like 3 dings on my hood, maybe 2-3 on the very top of my van, that can't be seen. None are bad enough to cause any "damage" to the van. And I don't want them to repair it. I just want where their insured hit me fixed. I don't even want their money, I just want my van.. fixed.
Yup, 65%. As I said before. I live in Texas, and no it's not state regulation. As I've already talk to other insurance adjusters from different companies, like State Farm and they are not that low.
I've driven my van 5 times since the accident and it drives just fine. There is no engine problems, and I never had an issue with the steering. That's the body shop guy, saying there may be something wrong with the steering ccolumn on the inside. Not that it's broken, if anything it's just shifted. But it doesn't affect how the van drives.
I will be asking them for a copy of everything have.
Thanks Jeremy, that's what I've decided to do.
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:22 am Post Subject:
I don't care about some minor hail damage.
The reason I was asking about that NinjaJ, was because (if you had comp) you could've still put in a claim for it and got paid for that damage...course since you don't have comp that's not an option..But I have a feeling they are going to make it a big deal, when it's only minor hail damage
I doubt it typcially when an adjuster writes a pre-existing damage estimate, we write them 'light' and if the hail is minor it will likely be written PDR (paintless dent repair) which is WAY less than conventional hail repairs.And I don't want them to repair it.
They won't nor is that what they are saying...they are just writing the estimate and will deduct that amount (or a percentage of) from your vehicles value.I just want where their insured hit me fixed. I don't even want their money, I just want my van.. fixed.
I understand that, but if it cost more to repair it than total it, or if it meets the states mandated threshold (which apparently is the case)...they will not repair it, they will total it, however you could keep it and repair it yourself with the money they give you on the total loss settlement. You might want to ask the shop what they would charge you to repair it so it's safe, operable, and driveable.That's the body shop guy, saying there may be something wrong with the steering ccolumn on the inside. Not that it's broken, if anything it's just shifted. But it doesn't affect how the van drives.
did your body hit the wheel in the accident? That's odd that they think this is a problem deep in the column...maybe something that's been that way a long time, if you hadn't noticed anything after the accident.I still can't believe they use 65% they must total A LOT of vehicles...I found this in the texas ins. regulations,
Each insurance company establishes a percentage of damage in comparison to the ACV of a vehicle. If the measurable damage, from hail damage, an accident, etc, meets or exceeds the set percentage the company will automatically declare a total loss.
So it appears each carrier can come up with their own percentage and this is what farmers has decided (lowest i've ever seen is 70% and that was state mandated)..Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 06:51 am Post Subject:
Well, I got the call back today. They are trying to say the collision place estimated the hail damage to be $1200?! That can't be right, and the collision place is asking way too much. It seriously is very light hail damage. She even tried to tell me, well, that's incase they need to repaint. Repaint? It's not chipping any of my paint. And they are ones that a suction cup could easily pull out. If I wanted to get it fixed, they are very easy dents to remove. The hood, there is only 3-4 dents,light. Not sure about the top, and I never look at the roof. But my brother has, and he's tall, but said it wasn't very much and hardly noticable when I got home after the hail storm that hit.
But they are deducting $200 for hail damage. Which I think is ridiculous.
Then she said they are deducting for the headliner. Fine. I'll give them that one. Seeing as I've been meaning to get that fixed because my husband did it,and it's bugging the crap out of me. It's starting to sag over both from seats.
But then she said they were also deducting for the carpet. That's another I think is crazy. Because there is nothing wrong with the carpet at all. It's just dirty and needs a shampoo. I have two kids and haul things and animals around in there. The are NO burns, tears, stains or anything wrong that with that carpet. Just dirty. Nothing a good shampooing and vaccuming can't fix. Which if I was actually going to sell it, all that would be cleaned. But I thought I was going in to get it fixed. I didn't make sure to detail the inside of my van before I turned it into the collison place. Wasn't aware I needed to.
Then she kept saying my VIN kept coming up a 3 door. I have a 4 door. 2 sliding, and then 2 front, and of course the hatch, but that one doesn't really count. She kept insisting that the VIN showed 3 door. So they are giving me a price of a 3 door?!??! I don't care what the VIN says, if she'd look at the pictures, which I am sure they have, she could easily see there is 4 doors. Then she read the notes of the adjuster and sees she said 4 door. Ok. Then she says, well, the 2nd sliding door was an "special" option back then. It wasn't standard. Then contradicts herself and says that they count the 2 sliding as one. NO THEY DO NOT. Beacuse of course, if it wasn't standard, then that means the 2nd sliding door, would bring the value up.. once again.
So they deducted $200 for hail damage
I can't remember the amount for the headliner and carpet, but I know it was $100 something. I'll be getting the numbers again Monday because the lady I talked to today was "covering" for my adjuster, because she was out of the office. So Monday my adjuster will be calling me. They gave me an "ok" offer. But it's not enough to buy me another van, same year, same make, same V6, same 3.0L, same to lower mileage. I have found only ONE for sale, and they still haven't emailed me back. So I don't even know if it's still for sale. But their offer won't cover TTL, if I were able to get that vehicle. I cannot afford to be adding a car payment or raising my insurance by adding a newer car.
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 07:02 am Post Subject:
I agree. 65% is REALLY low, and most must get their stuff listed as "total loss."
No there was no prior damage. To my vehicle in any way shape or form. Except for normal wear and tear, and the very light hail damage.
HIS car's front in hit my wheel. He hit me. This is his insurance I am dealing with NOT mine. When he turned into me, he basically gased it. And sort of "ran" up the tire, fender and driver side door of my van. Causing my driver door to slightly shift back. So no you can't close the sliding passenger/driver side door with the driver door shut, or it slams metal against metal. The pictures I posted show the visable damage.
As long as the wheel isn't bent, I don't even want that replaced. Yeah, it's marked up, but that's just cosmetic. I don't really care. I just wanted the crunched parts fixed. So whatever he's thinking "may" be wrong in that area, he thinks happened when the guy hit me, and "shoved" things back in. Because of the area he hit me. They don't know though because they haven't opened it up. So there could just as easily be nothing wrong with it.
I could keep it, but then they drop the offer by about $1K. OR I could take the offer, and buy my van back from salavage for $439. Use the rest to fix the van, but then be stuck with a salvage title. So if in the far future if I ever wanted to sell it or trade it in, it would be very hard, and near impossible to use as a trade-in.
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:47 am Post Subject:
But they are deducting $200 for hail damage. Which I think is ridiculous
Sorry but you're off base there...if they are only deducting 200 from your vehicles ACV for even a couple hail dents on the hood and the roof they are being very generous. They should be deducting the cost of as steam cleaning for the carpet, and maybe detailing of the enterior, not to replace the carpet...unless it's worn thru somewhere.I can't remember the amount for the headliner and carpet, but I know it was $100 something
:shock: If they are deducting less than another $200 for the head liner and the carpet again that's generous, they COULD definately deduct the entire cost of the headliner..Honestly both of these deductions are fair....Sliding left door on my system add 125 (retail)...without knowing your other options, pwr, windows, doors locks, seats, a.c. cc., tow packag)...I'm getting a value of $3675.00, then if you subtract (say) 400 for prior damage that 3275.00....Remember they don't owe to replace your van, they owe the ACV of your van the way it sat the day it got hit...
No there was no prior damage. To my vehicle in any way shape or form. Except for normal wear and tear, and the very light hail damage.
Hail damage, a bad headliner, and stained carpet are prior damage that reduce the value of your vehicle...sounds to me though they are being more than fair in their deductions...From the pictures of the impact to the fender, it's likely that you sure could've suffered some suspension damage, (upper control arm, strut, knuckle etc)...if you decide to keep it just make sure that is checked out first before you make your decision, it's a matter of putting it on a lift and pulling the wheel off to look (that's not a 100% but if obvious damage they will see it) also tire and wheel of course and minimally get a front wheel alignment, or you'll likely wear your tires out quick.
I could keep it, but then they drop the offer by about $1K. OR I could take the offer, and buy my van back from salavage for $439
I think you've misunderstood, they cannot change the value of the vehicle if you retain it other than subtracting the salvage value (439)..Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 01:53 pm Post Subject:
No. He didn't hit hard enough. Also I've brought it home and had some else look at it, and no. The only damage is what you see. He didn't hit me hard enough to cause any other damage. If it would've been any harder, yes. But we were in a parking lot. He was only going 5-10mph- or less.. The van drives straight as an arrow. It does not pull, shimmy, or anything else that would hint to issues with the steering.
And no I am not mistaken, and I didn't misunderstand. The $439, was NOT totaled into the total amount of the settlement.
She told me- they would give me $2076, if I kept the vehicle, without taking it to salvage. Then told me I'd get $3475(that's $3200, plus TTL), if I let them take my van. But I could go to the salvage and buy it back for $439... which would leave me with $3036,still a broken fender and door, and a salvage title. Sure I could the money to fix it, but then I still got the salvage title. Which even though I don't plan on selling it, I don't want a salvage title.
The carpet is not worn anywhere. They are nitpicking on that. Heck if I had known someone was going to be saying some minor damage is going to mean I don't get my van back, then I would've cleaned it, and shampooed the carpet, etc. int he 5 days I had it before taking it to the shop.
Add your comment