by ddykstra » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:48 pm
Hey everyone,
I've been trying to read old threads to find an answer to my situation, but I can't seem to figure it out. With all of the expertise on these boards hopefully someone will know what I should do.
My situation is as follows:
I just had my brand new Mazda 3 2009 with 120 miles hit by an insured driver, her company has accepted liability and deemed the car a total loss. Thankfully no one was injured.
My problem is that I can't seem to get the insurance company, Endeavor, to give me an offer without my having the car dealership fax them the bill of sale. I realize its a new car and they might have some trouble finding a fair value using their computer models. So I had the dealership fax them the MSRP invoice. Endeavor initially said this would be fine, but upon receiving it, promptly offered me $5k less than MSRP and demanded the bill of sale. When I requested to talk to the supervisor's supervisor, they even had the President of the company yell at me on the phone to send them the bill of sale. They sent me a threatening letter in the mail on the 26th and I received it today. I am starting to feel very pressured and uncomfortable.
My feeling is that if I send the bill of sale I am absolutely 100% guaranteed to get a slightly low offer that will be high enough that I will have no choice but to accept it. I would send it, assuming it my legal responsibility, except for the following:
1. I also filed with my insurance, USAA, before Endeavor accepted liability and they required no documentation from me.
More importantly:
2. If I had awful credit and overpaid for a new car, the insurance companies would absolutely not pay me what I paid for it. They would go find out what the car is actually worth and pay me that. They cannot have it both ways.
Am I am legally entitled to the actual value of my vehicle, despite whether or not I was able to negotiate for a slightly better price than sticker offer or not. Isn't my Bill of Sale private information? These are questions I am beginning to doubt myself on.
The very helpful floor manager at the Mazda dealership has suggested I threaten to report Endeavor to the State Board, and does not think I should send in the Bill of Sale. I also am thinking about asking Endeavor to use the program's values for the 08 model to make me an offer. I seriously doubt they will do anything for me without the bill of sale however. They are like a broken record.
Advice and feedback would be greatly appreciated!
I've been trying to read old threads to find an answer to my situation, but I can't seem to figure it out. With all of the expertise on these boards hopefully someone will know what I should do.
My situation is as follows:
I just had my brand new Mazda 3 2009 with 120 miles hit by an insured driver, her company has accepted liability and deemed the car a total loss. Thankfully no one was injured.
My problem is that I can't seem to get the insurance company, Endeavor, to give me an offer without my having the car dealership fax them the bill of sale. I realize its a new car and they might have some trouble finding a fair value using their computer models. So I had the dealership fax them the MSRP invoice. Endeavor initially said this would be fine, but upon receiving it, promptly offered me $5k less than MSRP and demanded the bill of sale. When I requested to talk to the supervisor's supervisor, they even had the President of the company yell at me on the phone to send them the bill of sale. They sent me a threatening letter in the mail on the 26th and I received it today. I am starting to feel very pressured and uncomfortable.
My feeling is that if I send the bill of sale I am absolutely 100% guaranteed to get a slightly low offer that will be high enough that I will have no choice but to accept it. I would send it, assuming it my legal responsibility, except for the following:
1. I also filed with my insurance, USAA, before Endeavor accepted liability and they required no documentation from me.
More importantly:
2. If I had awful credit and overpaid for a new car, the insurance companies would absolutely not pay me what I paid for it. They would go find out what the car is actually worth and pay me that. They cannot have it both ways.
Am I am legally entitled to the actual value of my vehicle, despite whether or not I was able to negotiate for a slightly better price than sticker offer or not. Isn't my Bill of Sale private information? These are questions I am beginning to doubt myself on.
The very helpful floor manager at the Mazda dealership has suggested I threaten to report Endeavor to the State Board, and does not think I should send in the Bill of Sale. I also am thinking about asking Endeavor to use the program's values for the 08 model to make me an offer. I seriously doubt they will do anything for me without the bill of sale however. They are like a broken record.
Advice and feedback would be greatly appreciated!
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 02:39 am Post Subject:
Here is my question... what did Endever tell you they needed the bill of sale for? Is it to veryify ownership?
My problem is that I can't seem to get the insurance company, Endeavor, to give me an offer without my having the car dealership fax them the bill of sale.
Endeavor initially said this would be fine, but upon receiving it, promptly offered me $5k less than MSRP and demanded the bill of sale.
It appears that they have made you an offer, no? How did they arrive at this amount? If they made an offer why are you saying that they now need the Bill of Sale to make an offer?Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 04:50 am Post Subject: "bill of sale!" x infiniti
They are claiming they have no method for determining the value of the totaled vehicle.
The offer they made was not a real offer apparently. It was also so low as to be laughable. I have no idea what they were thinking, because now I am going to ask for the documentation for the value of the offer, and all they can say in response is "Send us the bill of sale if you dont like our offer".
Basically they have one line.
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 08:58 am Post Subject:
Well, why would they threat? I understand that the car value depreciates with the use and as much as 20% of the value depreciates the time you roll the car out of the dealership. Hence, you’re likely to receive an amount less that what you have paid on it.
You can turn the claim to your insurer as well. Obtain the quote from both the insurers and accept the higher deal. if you get reimbursed by your insurer, they would later subrogate against the at-fault drivers carrier and recover their loss.
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 09:17 am Post Subject:
Well, to determine the worth of the offer made by the insurance company we need to know both the cost of the vehicle and the amount proposed by the insurer. You have mentioned in your post that you have over paid on the vehicle. If so, then the insurer isn’t responsible for what you have paid. They would simply run the vehicle most possibly on the NADA site to determine its value.
. If I had awful credit and overpaid for a new car, the insurance companies would absolutely not pay me what I paid for it.
However, I have failed to understand the following statement as well,
They are claiming they have no method for determining the value of the totaled vehicle.
Does this mean that they are hiring the service of a third party evaluator since they ought to have the value determined?
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:57 am Post Subject: Option #2 for Endeavor
Have them replace your vehicle with another which is comparably equipped. If their insured carried high enough policy limits, an insuror is also allowed to "replace" your vehicle with same make and model. Their hangup may be that those cars range widely in price depending how equipped and since their are only MSRP values (a joke) out their, it would be hard to determine the exact value on what the vehicle can be truly purchased for (which is what they actually owe you). Dont forget the sales tax!
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:52 pm Post Subject:
They are claiming they have no method for determining the value of the totaled vehicle
Well let me help them...since I've been doing this over 20 years, it's reallllllllly hard to do so i'll give them the secret! ( :roll: geeze what a bunch of morons)...Call the local mazda dealer ask them, 'if i walk in with cash and no trade in what can i buy this vehicle (same as yours) for?" after they get that number then they deduct your mileage from that, I want to say it's like 40 cents or so a mile.issue payment for that, as well as title/license fees, however your state handles the sales tax and bing bang bomb...done claim closed...man on man people are just so stupid some times...honey that is what they owe you (the above)...no more no less they do not owe you the MSRP, and I would (and have) to stifle a laugh anytime anyone asks for that...who EVER has paid MSRP? no one...and the insurance company doesn't owe that either...if the 'sharp as a marble' adjuster still doesn't know how to determine the value of a brand new car, you can let him/her in on my little adjusting secret above... :roll:please let us know how this comes out and if we can be of further assisitance to you.
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 06:57 pm Post Subject: haha thanks lori
Yeah I'm not sure why they wont just call dealerships for that info.
I did not overpay for the car, I got $2000 off basically for having outside financing. I also negotiated well by being immediately ready to simply walk out the door. I bought the new Mazda 3 sport i, low end model, for $13k. I think the car is worth more than I paid for it, but yes I realize its not worth the MSRP of $16k.
What I am asking is, am I legally bound to send the insurance company my bill of sale? Why cant they just come up with a value on their own, perhaps doing what Lori said?
They refuse to deal with me unless I send the bill of sale, and are very hostile about it. It seems very shady.
Wont my bill of sale allow them to lowball offer me with precision? Sadly, my own insurance company, USAA, did that exact same thing to me; they know exactly what I paid since I financed through them. I do not wish to file with USAA, but I started a claim with them in case the other party did not accept liability. I suppose I can see if USAA will waive my deductible and go after Endeavor for me!
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 07:26 pm Post Subject:
I think the car is worth more than I paid for it, but yes I realize its not worth the MSRP of $16k.
Well honey what they owe you is the ACV (actual cash value) of your vehicle period...no more no less...they are claiming apparently they cannot figure out the ACV...whatever...idiots.What I am asking is, am I legally bound to send the insurance company my bill of sale?
No I don't think you would be...Why cant they just come up with a value on their own, perhaps doing what Lori said?
They can...tell them that...what you bought if for may be more or less today...as an example say today mazda is having a promotion 2k off all these vehicles...if that's 2k less than you paid, too bad, that's what they owe..and the opposite is true, if they had a promo when you bought it and that promo is no longer available then they need to set the ACV without out it...tell them to find the value the way i laid out, see what they say...They refuse to deal with me unless I send the bill of sale, and are very hostile about it. It seems very shady.
Tell them to put that in writing...that they cannot figure the ACV on their own and REFUSE to discuss the claim further unless and untill you provide the bill of sale...should've just told them you couldn't find it probably...Wont my bill of sale allow them to lowball offer me with precision?
should'nt...what they should do is if they have your bos is call the dealership ask if they/you could still purchase it TODAY for that amount...if so that's what they owe if not then they need to find out how much...hey do they have you in a rental car?Going to USAA might be the thing to do...here's the deal...they cannot pay you from the bill of sale unless that is the vehicles ACV
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 02:36 am Post Subject: hmm
Why have they never mentioned the term actual cash value to me? Is this a normal manner for insurance companies to act?
Seems awful especially considering we are all legally required to use their product!
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 04:05 am Post Subject:
All I can say is that not all the insurance companies work in the same fashion. These people seem especially stupid to me. IMO they are unnecessarily dragging the whole claim process. I don’t see a reason why would they require the sales invoice when they only have to determine the actual cash value of the car & pay you off.
Yes, you’re right that we’re legally required to use their products but we, as consumers, are required to make a wise choice , i.e. by looking up at their reputation with the rating agencies, like- A.M. Best, and department of insurance.
Thanks,
Rupert
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