by Guest » Mon Apr 12, 2010 07:53 am
So I tried to post this before, please delete if it's a repost -
Long story short, My car was totalled. Geico is the at-fault's carrier. Appraiser said my car was in "average" condition (it's not, and the shop guys who appraise for other companies put it at very good to excellent). I've challenged the initial comps & gained some value, but here's the big problem... The car I lost was a limited production vehicle. 5000 imported by Toyota in 2002. I can't replace it "in market"... To get one the same color blue, there are 3 listed on cars.com nationwide.
It's a clear cut liability case. I lost a car I've had since it had 2 miles on it and I should be compensated in such a way that I could replace it. How can any of the stats be reliable w/ a low production car? Just for grins, if you have access to a database like CCC, what would value an 02 MR2 spyder with 70,500 miles in very good condition? (I'm 78723)
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(I deleted your other thread Jillian and added that post here to hopefully cut down on the confusion that occurs when we have multiple threads running on same issue---lori)
A few weeks ago I was in an accident that totalled my 2002 MR2 (which I loved & have had since it had 2 miles on the odo). Not my fault, other party's insurance has accepted liability... Major issues: their appraiser classified the car as being in "average" condition, everyone else - including the body shop guys who appraise for other companies - say it's in excellent condition. I'm the original owner w/ all the service records. it has just over 70,000 miles on it. Also, there is no rating specific to the condition of a convertible's top. Mine was excellent, and it's at least a grand to replace. They send me these so called area comps, and you can tell they aren't in the same condition... so they aren't comps.
Final issue: this was a low production vehicle and I will probably have to go out of market to replace it. There are exactly 3 blue 02's listed on carsdotcom right now, nationwide. I don't think I should be held to "market" value if i can't replace my car in this market. If CCC has to go to other markets for values, how do I know they aren't reporting the ones most favorable to the insurance company? If only 5000 of these cars were imported in 2002, how can any of the stats be really accurate? Bottom line I guess, is that I feel I'm not getting a fair offer for my vehicle & I've been arguing for 2 weeks now.
Long story short, My car was totalled. Geico is the at-fault's carrier. Appraiser said my car was in "average" condition (it's not, and the shop guys who appraise for other companies put it at very good to excellent). I've challenged the initial comps & gained some value, but here's the big problem... The car I lost was a limited production vehicle. 5000 imported by Toyota in 2002. I can't replace it "in market"... To get one the same color blue, there are 3 listed on cars.com nationwide.
It's a clear cut liability case. I lost a car I've had since it had 2 miles on it and I should be compensated in such a way that I could replace it. How can any of the stats be reliable w/ a low production car? Just for grins, if you have access to a database like CCC, what would value an 02 MR2 spyder with 70,500 miles in very good condition? (I'm 78723)
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(I deleted your other thread Jillian and added that post here to hopefully cut down on the confusion that occurs when we have multiple threads running on same issue---lori)
A few weeks ago I was in an accident that totalled my 2002 MR2 (which I loved & have had since it had 2 miles on the odo). Not my fault, other party's insurance has accepted liability... Major issues: their appraiser classified the car as being in "average" condition, everyone else - including the body shop guys who appraise for other companies - say it's in excellent condition. I'm the original owner w/ all the service records. it has just over 70,000 miles on it. Also, there is no rating specific to the condition of a convertible's top. Mine was excellent, and it's at least a grand to replace. They send me these so called area comps, and you can tell they aren't in the same condition... so they aren't comps.
Final issue: this was a low production vehicle and I will probably have to go out of market to replace it. There are exactly 3 blue 02's listed on carsdotcom right now, nationwide. I don't think I should be held to "market" value if i can't replace my car in this market. If CCC has to go to other markets for values, how do I know they aren't reporting the ones most favorable to the insurance company? If only 5000 of these cars were imported in 2002, how can any of the stats be really accurate? Bottom line I guess, is that I feel I'm not getting a fair offer for my vehicle & I've been arguing for 2 weeks now.
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:47 am Post Subject:
Hi Jillian...I purchased a brand new off the show room floor spyder, in 2000 (when they reintroduced them)..actually 'supposedly' less than 3-4k that year...I kept it 3 years...when I traded it, it had 868 miles on it...I never drove it...I got what I had paid for it three years prior as a trade in...I say this so that you know I KNOW about the spyders...
First off for value..you didn't tell us what they had stated the value..and what you think the value is and why...further to help run a value for you we need to know if it has the following: leather seats, navigation system, power seat, sequential manual tranny, cruise, power window. Also what state/region are you in.
I googled for literally three minutes, and found more than 20, majority with less miles than yours...but again, don't know what they have told you their value came in.
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 05:00 pm Post Subject:
I'm in Austin, TX (78723). The initial valuation was something like $9500 being in "average condition". Yes, there were some rock chips & light dings - nothing serious. Honestly, the girl in the car who caused the accident's exact words were "your beautiful new car - I'm so sorry". Cop at the scene asked if it was the original paint. Tow truck guy asked the same question. So it may have 70K miles and some rock chips, but if everyone else thinks it's *new*...I'd say better than average condition. The guys at Toyota who appraise for other insurers put it at 11,000 - 11,300. If the damages are $7500, then a fair valuation of my car would result in it possibly not being totalled...
Leather seats, alarm, power windows, 5spd manual - not SMT, alloy wheels
My biggest issue is that "comps" in Texas are limited. On close exam, most of the comps are not in the same condition although it's hard to prove or disprove because they aren't even in Austin. I took extremely good care of things like my top and rubber seals, specific convertible issues which aren't considered in valuation. A spyder with perfect paint and dry/cracking seals/top isn't equal to one with some rock chips and a good top & seals. I'm also very attached to the color, it's one of the reasons i bought the car... That's where I'm getting the 3 on cars.com... 3 02's in spectra blue mica.
I've been advised that "fair market value" assumes the lost property can be readily replaced in that market. In the case of a unique asset, I should be able to argue for out of market valuation or an allowance for paint on market comps. If you know the car, you probably do understand more than most people. It's not easy to find a suitable replacement. At this stage, they've either been loved & cared for or passed down to a teenage child and run hard for the last 20K miles... I'm just trying to get enough compensation to find one of the former, not the latter.
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:07 am Post Subject:
What the carrier owes you is ACV (actual cash value)...They don't have to find one for you, but pay you what the value of yours was just prior to impact.
I'd agree, that based on the research I've done, and assuming it's condition is as you say, that an ACV would be somewhere between 10,500-11,300 or so...What have they offered and have you provided them with proof of your value?
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 05:34 pm Post Subject:
I've successfully negotiated from $9500 to $11,000, which I think is fair for the car in this market. My issue now is, I can't replace my car in this market. If I have to go out of market to replace my car it's likely going to be more expensive. Can I get out of market consideration given the unique nature of the car?
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:11 am Post Subject:
Can I get out of market consideration given the unique nature of the car?
I'm not sure what you mean by this....I think 11k is fair...good job..
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 05:37 pm Post Subject:
If the only blue 2002 spyders I can locate are in places like California, then it's going to cost more than "market value" in TX to replace. If we were dealing with a Corolla, I'd have 100's to choose from locally. To find another spyder in 8M6 blue, I'm looking at buying out of state... not my choice or my fault - that's where the cars are. What are the odds of getting any extra cash to help cover my costs in replacing my car? I know it's not usually "done", but I'd argue that this is not a usual case. I'm starting to think that I *could* get some cash to help cover it, but it may fall under a broader classification of "personal damages" & would likely require legal action.
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 06:51 pm Post Subject:
A few weeks ago I was in an accident that totalled my 2002 MR2 (which I loved & have had since it had 2 miles on the odo). Not my fault, other party's insurance has accepted liability... Major issues: their appraiser classified the car as being in "average" condition, everyone else - including the body shop guys who appraise for other companies - say it's in excellent condition. I'm the original owner w/ all the service records. it has just over 70,000 miles on it. Also, there is no rating specific to the condition of a convertible's top. Mine was excellent, and it's at least a grand to replace. They send me these so called area comps, and you can tell they aren't in the same condition... so they aren't comps.
Final issue: this was a low production vehicle and I will probably have to go out of market to replace it. There are exactly 3 blue 02's listed on carsdotcom right now, nationwide. I don't think I should be held to "market" value if i can't replace my car in this market. If CCC has to go to other markets for values, how do I know they aren't reporting the ones most favorable to the insurance company? If only 5000 of these cars were imported in 2002, how can any of the stats be really accurate? Bottom line I guess, is that I feel I'm not getting a fair offer for my vehicle & I've been arguing for 2 weeks now.
I believe... due to the damage being caused by another party this does not fall under "Contract Law" and you are under no obligation to honor the at-fault driver's insurance company wishes or rules. This would more likely fall under "Laws of Tort". Which again I believe are based on "Reasonable" & necessary to put you back in the position you were before the Tort. (damage)
I'm no Attorney so don't take my word for it.... but it might be a good idea to at least use a Free Consultation with an Attorney and get a professional Opinion on the matter.
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:00 pm Post Subject:
Well Jillian there is certainly no harm in asking..FK is correct of course this is a third party claim...I doubt you'd find on that would take a PD claim, and it would not be in your financial interest to hire an atty (that third of your settlement going into their pocket thing :roll: ) but a free consult wouldn't hurt, if you think it might help.
At any rate, it certainly doesn't cost you anything to ask :wink:
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