Hit At Pump, Salvage Certificate of Title, Please Help

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 01:38 pm Post Subject:

I am pretty sure they can but you amy still have other options if you haven't cashed the check. My husband and I just went through something similiar to this a little while back.
My husband is notorious for hitting deer (I think this is why he comes up empty in hunting season). Well the last time The adjuster came out and the damage was exceeding the trucks value. He gave my husband two options 1..To go through what you listed above or 2..He could pay him for the parts and he could fix it himself and without the labor costs it would put the repair of the vechicle below its actual value and therefore he would not have to do all of the above. We opted for number 2 since it was just a work vechicle (he works in a coal mine which is very dirty). Fortunately we have other newer vechicles we use for town and such. The truck is just so we didn't mess up the others with his dirt from his job. Hope everything works out for you.
Keep checking back because you should hear from someone who can tell you exactly what to do. They are pretty cool here.

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 04:55 pm Post Subject:

Fireone,
Thanks for your reply to my post.

We plan to contct our lawyer on Monday on this issue. From what I've been reading on this message board, it seems there might not be much we can do and the insurance company is allowed to do this to a person property! Personally, I feel and think this should be against the law!

YOu state that

He could pay him for the parts and he could fix it himself and without the labor costs it would put the repair of the vechicle below its actual value and therefore he would not have to do all of the above

I am pretty sure they can but you amy still have other options if you haven't cashed the check. My husband and I just went through something similiar to this a little while back.
My husband is notorious for hitting deer (I think this is why he comes up empty in hunting season). Well the last time The adjuster came out and the damage was exceeding the trucks value. He gave my husband two options 1..To go through what you listed above or 2..He could pay him for the parts and he could fix it himself and without the labor costs it would put the repair of the vechicle below its actual value and therefore he would not have to do all of the above. We opted for number 2 since it was just a work vechicle (he works in a coal mine which is very dirty). Fortunately we have other newer vechicles we use for town and such. The truck is just so we didn't mess up the others with his dirt from his job. Hope everything works out for you.
Keep checking back because you should hear from someone who can tell you exactly what to do. They are pretty cool here.

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 05:35 pm Post Subject:

Hello Sabrina,

Well yes they can do this let me attempt to explain why....Your vehicle is worth less than the cost of repair...Apparently your vehicle's ACV (actual cash value) came in around 1100.00...I have never in all my years (22) heard of the option that hummingbirds husband was given...this doesn't make it not so, could be a 'state' thing....Here are your two options (well three if you have collision coverage you can file the claim with your carrier, but I'm betting it will come out the same)...They are telling you (again) that the cost of repair exceeds your vehicles value, (it's totaled)..so you can take the value of the vehicle (1100.00) and they (the ins company) take the van, or you can 'retain' the salvage (thus the 4hundred dollar figure)...and get the balance, see if they take the van (giving you 1100) they will sell it and recoup this 400 so you are in effect buying it back...re: how can they get the titled changed to salvage...this isn't the insurance companies rule, it's a state law., they have no option but to do this PERIOD or face huge fines.....

Your only recourse is if you think they are being unfair in their assessment of your vehicles value (ACV)...if so and you can prove it...then you could take the owner of the vehicle that hit you to small claims court and attempt to get this ACV higher. Honestly though I'm betting they are right in the ball park value wise, maybe even a little generous to be brutally honest. Most vehicles of this year and model are in pretty rough condition and valued as 'basic transportation' which carries a value of 500-750.00 (period, remember they have valued yours at 1100.00)...

Were I you, I'd bank the 700 bucks, if not necessary I'd not make any repairs at all (repairing it will not increase the value now), I'd only repair anything that absolutely HAD TO BE repaired for safety sake....and drive that puppy till it wouldn't drive anymore....

I'm sorry this happened and know it's hard to understand some times, but they cannot pay more to repair your vehicle than it's worth....Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance to you....

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:34 am Post Subject:

I'm not sure how the adjuster worked this out for my husband but a week later he got the check in the mail along with the numbers to parts places that offered after market parts for cheaper.
Same thing with an inncident that happened when my brother s truck was hit with my hubbys riding mower. the adjuster went to his house a couple days later, chalked up all the damage and sent him a check, including the labor even though he was doing the work himself. I'm assuming the rules around here may be different.

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:48 am Post Subject:

Hi Lori,
Thanks so much for the reply.

but they cannot pay more to repair your vehicle than it's worth

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:23 am Post Subject:

I'm assuming the rules around here may be different.

So the insurance company will not pay for full repairs if the vehicle is not worth the amount in damage.

But, I do not see were the insurance company has the right to put a "Title Of Salvage" on my vehicle because our vehicle has more damage then the Blue Book Value.

I have a clear title on this van and Yes, it is an older model van but it's in no way a in a salvage vehicle condition.

....1. So if we decide to keep the 700 dollar check and cash it for repairs, the insurance company will still have our vans title changed to a "Salvage Title".

2. If we never cash the 700 dollar insurance check and give it back to the insurance company, the insurance company will Still have our vans title changed to a "Salvage Title"....correct?

per House Bills 2151 and 2599, Progressive Insurance Company must notify the State of Texas that you have done so.

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 01:26 pm Post Subject:

Sabrina, You have posted your question on the wrong site.

This site is insurance frendly and will ony tell you stories that benifit the insurance industry.

The advice that they give is wrong in many states!

"Never ask someone that owes you money what they think is a fair repayment!"

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 01:48 pm Post Subject:

Roger Walling, I think I saw your name on another 'hater' site.... first, let me say as a moderator I have the ' power' to delete your entire post...notice I didn't....

Sabrina you will have to make your own decision, I (nor any other intelligent human) would ever insult an entire industry, don't they call that bigotry? (ie Roger)....

This site is insurance frendly and will ony tell you stories that benifit the insurance industry

The advice that they give is wrong in many states!

Never ask someone that owes you money what they think is a fair repayment!"

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 04:55 pm Post Subject:

Sabrina, I don't think many of us hide the fact that we work for insurance companies. I also think, if you look, that we also tell people when they are getting screwed by a carrier and how to get the maximum payment possible from carriers. In the case of this post, Lori and others, gave information and explained_why_ it is that way. You will notice that Roger Walling did nothing like that... he just posted some pointless information that did not address your question. I'm betting you won't see a follow up post from him as it's fairly obvious he's just trolling.

As mentioned, an insurance company is responsible for putting you back in the same condition you were prior to the accident. Keep in mind that this is a general legal term... especially in the case of a total loss, extremely few people will be put back in their exact position.

How that applies in this case is that the carrier can pay you for your vans value as it was prior to the accident. In theory you could go out and buy an identical van for that cost... hence, your put back into the same position. Is that van available in your area? I doubt it. That is why it's more of a legal term then one of reality. I'll give you my "glass 1/2 full
" speech.... take the $700+ and put it together with some money out of your pocket and get a _better_ vehicle. This is more likely to be possible.

As far as the salvage title... Progressive is not changing the title, they are notifying the state (as required by law) that your vehicle was considered a total loss. States have these laws for a good reason. It's so a person (dealership) cannot glue and duct tape a total loss vehicle back together and hide this fact from the future buyer. The title will be branded for all to see. Now in the case of an older vehicle, where minor damage will total it out, this law is not good. But it _is_ possible to repair minor damages and have the title changed back... it's just a little more difficult. To be honest... when I have situations like this (where a fender dent totals a vehicle... I usually "forget" to tell the state. But I can get away with it... a Progressive adjuster may not).

Just to a little further in proving Roger 100% incorrect...

Review the total loss valuation from Progressive (probably done by either CCC or AutoSource) and make sure that it's 100% accurate. Appraisers usually miss items that will add value to a vehicle as they are simply filling out a form with options on it. I've seen them miss sunroofs and navigation systems. Make sure the mileage they used is correct. Maintenance items such as oil changes or rebuilt engines (unless done recently) won't count.

If Progressive pays you less the salvage value they probably won't include things such as sales tax. My recommendation is to allow them to take the salvage and pool their money together with some of your own and get a better vehicle. If you do this, make sure they include sales tax, tag fees, registration fees, etc. (all state expenses needed to buy another vehicle).

You may want to do some research on the van and see if you can come up with a slightly higher value (you probably don't want to use retail values or "asking" prices). If you can, argue a little with the adjuster and see if they will kick in another $50 or $100 on their value just to close the claim. It's not likely that this will happen but it's worth a try. Sugar coat the conversation... it never hurts. I'll bend over backward for someone who makes my job a little easier but, frankly, have little interest in going the extra mile for those that make it more difficult.

Roger...? Can I have your $1? :)

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 06:59 pm Post Subject: Making Perfect Cent$ for Sabrina

Let me begin by stating that I too would encourage anyone to seriously reconsider taking advice on how to collect money from those that owe it to them. And before anyone pretends to know about me, I am an ex-senior adjuster for Progressive Ins. and have managed, owned and operated auto body repair facilities as well as provide expert testimony in such issues as this and others.

Regardless if this site is pro-insurance or not, common sense needs to prevail. By the way, I am not an insurance basher, I bash any company who takes unfair advantage of the un-informed and preyed upon regardless of which industry they belong. I agree with Lori regarding the good and bad in most, if not all industries.

While I am no longer a licensed claims adjuster and am not a licensed attorney, I cannot and do not provide legal advice and encourage anyone who believes they may need legal counsel to seek an attorney licensed in their state and who is familiar with such issues. With that stated, let me offer a few personal insights I think should be considered.

First: Since it wasn't Progressive that struck the subject vehicle, Progressive doesn't owe Sabrina for her damages, they owe to protect their insured under the terms of their policy contract with them…not the victim of their insured's negligence.

Secondly: What the insurer does owe their insured (policy holder) is to properly indemnify Sabrina (the victim) as to protect their insured (policy holder who caused the damages) from having to pay Sabrina her damages themselves (out of pocket), up to the limits of coverage's as outlined in their policy.

Thirdly: While most states give the right to make a determination to repair or total a vehicle to the insurer, once the insurer makes the decision, they are bound by most state regulations to do so in a proper and thorough manner as to fully indemnify the injured party.

If they (insurer) elect to repair, they are then obligated to pay the full cost to properly and thoroughly restore the vehicle to its pre-loss condition as well as any loss of use and any resultant diminishment in value.

Should the insurer elect to deem the vehicle to be a total loss, then the insurer is obligated (on behalf of their insured) to provide compensation to indemnify the victim with replacement value that equals the pre-loss value of the subject vehicle to enable it to be replaced with another, including sales tax and tag and title transfer and any other costs derived from the loss including, but not limited to loss of use or rental of a like kind vehicle, loss of wages, gas and mileage in seeking a replacement vehicle etc.

In short, Sabrina and her family are legally entitled, by the at-fault party (not the insurer) to be placed in the same condition they were before the loss, no better and no worse.

Now the real question; Since Progressive has elected to deem the vehicle to be a total loss and provide replacement value, has the insurer truly offered them what it will truly take to place Sabrina in and her family in their “pre-loss condition”?

I would encourage Sabrina to do her own research to find and determine what their van was worth prior to the loss and to contact the insurer and request they provide her all documents and research of which they relied upon to make their offer of the subject vehicle's “Pre-loss” “Actual Cash Value” plus tax, tag and title etc. She may be able to do so by visiting www.autotrader.com, www.edmunds.com as well as checking book values @ www.NADA.com, www.KBB.com etc.
Once done she herself will have a fair idea of the true ACV to affect settlement.

Should the carrier fail to resolve the issue with Sabrina in a fair, reasonable and timely manner, then if it were I, I would discontinue efforts with the insurer and turn my attention directly to the party that caused my damages and who truly owes for my damages through small claims if need be.

They (the at-fault party) can then go against Progressive and find out why Progressive, their own insurer, didn't uphold their part of the policy contract they entered into.
It would behoove Sabrina to let the at-fault party know that it was never her intent to sue them and that should they themselves get an independent attorney to assist them in a possible “breach of contract issue” against Progressive that Sabrina would assist them in such an endeavor.

In the end, perhaps it will be in the best interest for all for Progressive to fairly and properly indemnify Sabrina and her family and get the matter behind everyone. After all, this is the very reason insurance exists!

Otto