by Guest » Thu Dec 18, 2008 01:47 am
Hi,
I am a big fan of this forum. Great info here!
My wife was the victim of road rage but her insurance company (Progressive) determined the accident fault ratio to be 50/50 as the other driver chose to completely (and apparently succesfully) fabricate a story. The incident took place in California.
I am going to move my wife's auto policy from Progressive to my insurance company, the Auto Club of Southern California. The Auto Club has advised me over the phone that 50/50 accidents do not adversely affect premiums. In other words, my and my wife's premiums would only be affected adversely if she had been determined to be principally at-fault (i.e., 51% or greater at-fault) for the incident (I can't stomach calling it an accident lol).
Does this sound right?
I am a big fan of this forum. Great info here!
My wife was the victim of road rage but her insurance company (Progressive) determined the accident fault ratio to be 50/50 as the other driver chose to completely (and apparently succesfully) fabricate a story. The incident took place in California.
I am going to move my wife's auto policy from Progressive to my insurance company, the Auto Club of Southern California. The Auto Club has advised me over the phone that 50/50 accidents do not adversely affect premiums. In other words, my and my wife's premiums would only be affected adversely if she had been determined to be principally at-fault (i.e., 51% or greater at-fault) for the incident (I can't stomach calling it an accident lol).
Does this sound right?
Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 09:43 am Post Subject:
Well, it's a very interesting statement
My wife was the victim of road rage but her insurance company (Progressive) determined the accident fault ratio to be 50/50 as the other driver chose to completely (and apparently succesfully) fabricate a story. The incident took place in California.
Where did the accident take place? Wasn't there a police report filed? Wasn't there any third party eye witnesses? When did the other driver change his story, in front of the police or before the claim adjuster?
Please, tell us what exactly has happened. Its hard to believe that the insurance company assigned 50% responsibility on your wife depending upon the fabricated story of the other driver.
Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:30 am Post Subject: insurance
Mmm.......I would think BOTH insurance companies would need to see the damamge on BOTH vehicles. How can they take someone's word for it, when they haven't seen the damage? I'd like to know, too, when the OTHER driver changed his story. Did you take pictures of the damamge? Do you have an estimate of your damages? Do you happen to know the damamge to the OTHER car?
Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:43 pm Post Subject:
Just a guess but most likely the stories were polar opposite, with no independent witnesses and the damages could've resulted from either story...again, a guess...IMO unless something to the contrary, they (progressive) should've denied the claimant and forced it to arbitration, but there are many things we don't know as yet about the facts of loss..
Does this sound right?
Yes, and no...if your state is a pure comparative negligence state, 50/50 means you each pay 50% of the others damages, if it is modified, then they each take care of their own, and there is no payment to the adverse party (49/51% rule)...so if the 49/51 rule apply in your case, I say it's ''possible'' there would be no increase, however, I don't see how a 50/50 wouldn't increase the premium in either case, because she would be marked with a 'chargeable' accident albeit only 50%..Have you 'fought' this liability decision with your carrier? IMO (depending of course on the facts of loss), this would be in your best interest...I know the person you talked to (with your company) is giving you the best info they have, but I think you'd be better off checking with the underwriting or policy services, even claims dept of that company...I don't know that you are getting acruate information,.
Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 02:10 pm Post Subject:
I don't know that you are getting acruate information,.
Quite right..also I find it hard to believe that Auto Club could be so careless to tell you that it won't increase your rate (right at the beginning). I've not heard of any of our insurance giants believing in fabricated stories either..
Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:14 pm Post Subject:
The facts are similar in tone to what Lori described. While the other driver admitted blame to my wife immediately after the assault and even attempted to repair her car on the spot, a new story was on display once the police came out. My wife called 911 because she was afraid for her life during the incident and afterward. The police didn't even file a report (choosing to take the lazy route I believe since the damages weren't great). There were plenty of pictures of the damage but not of how the cars came to rest because the incident happened on a busy street and the cars had to be moved for safety reasons. A favorable witness was found by my wife but he refused to go on the record due to some past transgressions with child support. Other favorable corroboration could be out there but will be too difficult to get (the 911 call, Metrolink cameras, other witnesses etc.). The other driver's damages were around $1,000 and my wife's were $2,000. If it weren't for the road rage and terror aspects, the police would never have been called and a claim probably never filed but there was little choice.
We are in California and basically they seem to follow the pure comparative 50/50 that Lori described with my wife paying for half his damage and the other driver paying for half of my wife's damage.
Progressive was the insurer for both parties when the incident happened. I spoke to Progressive about rate increases and they indicated any claim over a certain amount paid would cause a rate increase when renewal time came around. I then spoke with the Auto Club, my insurer on my car, and they told me only 51% at-fault accidents affect premiums. I then moved my wife's car to my policy at the Auto Club based on this information that their agents provided to me over the phone.
My main question is did the Auto Club of Southern California give me accurate information. While my wife is still very upset by the incident, she would take comfort in knowing that the other driver's behavior will not continue to "violate" her for the next 3 years.
Thanks so much for your help.
Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:43 pm Post Subject:
I did call the Auto Club again and eventually spoke with an agent who confirmed with 100% certainty that premiums wouldn't be higher by virtue of having a 50/50 accident (a partial fault accident -- i.e., 50% or less) on the record. I spoke first with policy services who were clueless and said the agents were the authorities on the matter. Claims could only tell me how a 50/50 works but not the implications on pricing policies. Underwriting just doesn't speak to anybody.
I think I am good. Would you agree? Or is there still reason to distrust the info?
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 04:47 am Post Subject: insurance
You REALLY CAN'T besure until everything is actually on paper. ANYONE can tell you ANYTHING..ya know? Not to be mean, but.....I really don't know how this person can tell you, 100%, that your payments/premiums won't go up. If you do take his word for it, you probably will be surprised, if they DO go up. The person/agent you were talking to...has he seen your claim, damages,etc? Sometimes agents will give onformation out without looking at the paperwork. Happened to me....that's why I say that.
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 07:24 am Post Subject:
Change in the premium rate is very much carrier relative, whether the company will or will not increase the rate will depend entirely upon its in-house business policy. Auto Club may follow the policy of not altering rates right after an accident when the policy holder is less than 51% at-fault, when Progressive may decide to behave differently.
Now, if Auto Club has assured you that this accident isn't going to affect your rates immediately, you may not have to worry about it. However, if I was you I'd still keep a watch out since it can only be a teaser rate and the rates might go-up at the next renewal.
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:17 am Post Subject:
My main question is did the Auto Club of Southern California give me accurate information
Since I don't work for Auto Club, I can't speak for them....What I can say is I've been doing this over 20 years, and I've never known a carrier (EVER) who based their 'incident' driven increases on percentage of negligence...ALL that I know of (which is many) base it the same as Progressive told you..on a dollar amount...most I think are around 600 bucks or so (in my area)..if this dollar amount is breached in an 'at fault' accident, and it would be being paid under the PD (property damage) coverage which of course is a liability coverage..and and automatic 'at fault' coverage...now could they be the only one that actually codes this is some odd way even if the payment threshold is breached? I guess they could...I just find it hard to believe...but hey I'm wrong about things daily.. :wink: IMO I'd still want this from policy services or someone that actually does the rate increases (your agent does NOT)...anyway...you've already switched so I hope it's good information, and it very well may be, but would certainly be the exception and not the rule...God forbid another comparative negligence accident results...let us know..FYI, I was wondering why your wifes carrier didn't just deny the claim now I know...they both had to 'believe' their insured's and since it was a double insured this was the best way to do it...
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