by GarySpicuzza » Sun Apr 05, 2009 08:48 pm
CFP - Certified Fraudulent Planners
Click Check out your Florida CFP.com to see if your Certified Fraudulent Planner is ACTUALLY just a Life Insurance Agent charging you a fee PLUS earning a BIG commission!
:P I earned $0.2998 cents for this post! :D
:arrow: A penny SAVED is a penny EARNED! 8)
Click Check out your Florida CFP.com to see if your Certified Fraudulent Planner is ACTUALLY just a Life Insurance Agent charging you a fee PLUS earning a BIG commission!
:P I earned $0.2998 cents for this post! :D
:arrow: A penny SAVED is a penny EARNED! 8)
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 03:54 am Post Subject:
Gary, loved the post.
We have lots of laws that deal with those that choose to refer to themselves as CFPs when in fact they're just life insurance agents wanting to, as you put it, charge them big ol' fat fees. In order to charge fees in my state, you must hold a consultant's class endorsement to your insurance license, prove 5 years of experience in the biz + put up $500k E&O.
Not much in the way of requirements now, is that? :shock: We also have laws that state if a agent (only) purports to be a CFP, ChFC or anything else with letters and isn't what they claim, it's whack-able under both law and rule. Good. :evil:
I know many good professionals with letters after their name. I'm one of them. It's the liars that honk me off. :twisted:
InsTeacher 8)
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:38 am Post Subject:
Totally agree InsTeacher.
A CFP whose "Marketing Strategy" is to bash Life Insurance Agents who earn commission and tout THAT as the reason you should do business with them are disingenuous fraud merchants who are actually charging a fee PLUS earning a commission.
In Florida if you charge fees rather than commission then the commission paid to the CFP life insurance agent shall be rebated back to the client.
Click HERE to read an e-mail exchange I had with Ryan McClelland, CFP.
:arrow: He was running radio ads on 970 WFLA bashing fixed annuity contracts and the "Life Insurance Agents" who sell them. It's the pot calling the kettle black since he's license with 44 Life and Annuity Companies! :shock: :shock: :shock:
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 01:27 pm Post Subject:
In Florida if you charge fees rather than commission then the commission paid to the CFP life insurance agent shall be rebated back to the client.
Does it get rebated following a lawsuit? Or is it a move from the carrier's end?
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 01:08 am Post Subject:
I wonder how many Certified Fraudulent Planners, aka, CFP... have ever read:
Florida Statute 626.9541
Unfair methods of competition and unfair or deceptive acts or practices defined.
626.9541 (9)
(b) False information and advertising generally.--Knowingly making, publishing, disseminating, circulating, or placing before the public, or causing, directly or indirectly, to be made, published, disseminated, circulated, or placed before the public:
1. In a newspaper, magazine, or other publication,
2. In the form of a notice, circular, pamphlet, letter, or poster,
3. Over any radio or television station, or
4. In any other way,
an advertisement, announcement, or statement containing any assertion, representation, or statement with respect to the business of insurance, which is untrue, deceptive, or misleading.
(c) Defamation.--Knowingly making, publishing, disseminating, or circulating, directly or indirectly, or aiding, abetting, or encouraging the making, publishing, disseminating, or circulating of, any oral or written statement, or any pamphlet, circular, article, or literature, which is false or maliciously critical of, or derogatory to, any person and which is calculated to injure such person.
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 05:39 am Post Subject:
Oregon's version of Gary's citation:
746.110 False, deceptive or misleading statements. No person shall make, publish, disseminate, circulate, or place before the public, or cause, directly or indirectly, to be made, published, disseminated, circulated, or placed before the public, in a newspaper, magazine or other publication, or in the form of a notice, circular, pamphlet, letter or poster, or over any radio or television station, or in any other way, an advertisement, announcement or statement containing any assertion, representation or statement with respect to the business of insurance or with respect to any person in the conduct of the insurance business, which is untrue, deceptive or misleading. [Formerly 736.608]
Oh, oh...oh...this is getting to me. In the state I'm in (Oregon), check THIS out- licensed consultants can be paid BOTH and commission AND/OR a fee. Talk about your fox guarding the henhouse! The scary part is that this practice is allowed in many states!
Licensed consultants are required to fill out a volume of disclosure forms and statements, and frankly- only a really intellectually challenged client could misunderstand them, but that still doesn't prohibit the fee + commission practice. In other words, you can "charge" both the buyer and the seller.
Does anyone smell a potential little conflict here, or I am the only one? :? :?: :( Some have no problem with this, getting paid on both sides. I suppose that if you disclose everything, it's certainly not illegal. On the other hand, most knowledgeable clients would prefer to seek advice from one who doesn't double-dip. They can smell out the conflict of interest. Now...what producer/consultant would drive a customer to the company that's paying the highest commissions? :shock: I AM SHOCKED!
Now, I'll be the first to admit that I've done it, too (charge fees). :shock: I will also state that I do it rarely, and only if I truly have to go above and beyond for the client. If it's the "standard insurance review" sort of thing, no biggie- no fees. On the other hand, if I have to wade through reams of paperwork in order to set up a high-end plan somewhere, I will charge an hourly rate. I'll also disclose every single term of the arrangement and won't hide or misrep anything, and I will scrupulously account for the time spent. I've seen too many folks get seriously whacked for egregious violations of law, usually precipitated by greed/stupidity. If you're curious, #1 on just every state's hit list for stupid is "failure to recommend and place properly, including ill-advised replacement" ( ahh...hello, annuity salespeople??)
OK, not ALL, by any means, annuity salespeople. Sorry 'bout that. :wink:
Still, one of my favorites is the age-old bad replacement. You'd think that producers would have figured this out by now, wouldn't you? The poor little old lady who's been in a lame annuity for 500 years and all of the surrender charges are gone and all that good stuff, and some producer convinces her to surrender the annuity and BUY THE COOL NEW ONE with the (don't forget to mention after-tax) PROCEEDS!! We'll just gloss over the new back-end loads of the COOL NEW ANNUITY (that has the teaser rates that you didn't talk about much and it drops to 1.5% in the 2nd year) and talk about how COOL it is.
Makes me wanna hurl...
InsTeacher 8)
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 08:34 am Post Subject:
I am really curious about the duty of the insurance agent and certified financial planner .What are the possible differences between the duties? OK CFP may look about overall portfolio of the client but still there is difference because people won't go to CFP just to purchase a insurance policy.
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:58 am Post Subject:
buckisaa wrote:
I am really curious about the duty of the insurance agent and certified financial planner .What are the possible differences between the duties? OK CFP may look about overall portfolio of the client but still there is difference because people won't go to CFP just to purchase a insurance policy.
A Certified Financial Planner is almost ALWAYS a Life Insurance Agent.
Almost always ONLY Life Insurance Agents become Certified Financial Planners.
There is nothing WRONG with that.
However, when Ryan McClelland, CFP; OR James K. Blankenship, CFP; OR Jeffery Voudrie, CFP...start bashing Life Insurance Agents as incompetant(sp) buffoons,... it's then time for Gary D. Spicuzza, *SAFE; to open up a can of WhoopASS.
I hope this answered your question.
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 02:28 pm Post Subject:
Nice Garry!!! This is really a nice answer to those who claim that they are only saviors of the entire populous and still charge hefty fee in return.
If the client is getting really a value addition by the service of the CFP then there is nothing wrong but if there is no value addition then surely one need to think twice before getting service from the CFP's.
:wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 01:16 pm Post Subject:
Hi Gary,
A Certified Financial Planner is almost ALWAYS a Life Insurance Agent.
I don't think all life insurance agents would be able to work as CFPs. There has to be some difference in qualifications for those who work as CFPs and those who don't. Am I right?
Roddick
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 03:31 pm Post Subject:
Am I right?
No.
A Certified Financial Planner cannot solicit the procurement of ANY form of insurance UNLESS he/she/it IS a licensed insurance agent.
The registered trademark known as a CFP is meaningless, along with all the rest of the alphabet soup in the financial services industry. It's THE STATE INSURANCE LICENSE THAT AUTHORIZES A PERSON TO TRANSACT THE BUSINESS OF INSURANCE IN THEIR STATE.
PERIOD.
End of Story.
Look at this another way, a person could graduate from law school but they ARE NOT an Attorney-at-Law until and unless they pass the bar examination and are admitted to the bar to practice law in their state.
If they NEVER get LICENSED as an attorney, then they are a non-lawyer who graduated from law school.
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