by Guest » Fri Oct 12, 2007 08:30 am
hi.. my name is Justin and I am a 20 year old male living in southern California. I work night stock crew at Von's pavilion and on May 15, 2007,I went to work at 10pm and finished around 5am on the 16th. A bunch of us walked out together and I will never forget that gut wrenching feeling I had when my car was not where I parked it and honestly, I think I went into shock!! I had only bought my Monte Carlo six months prior to someone stealing it. Lakewood Sheriff's sent an officer out who took the theft report and the minute I had this report to reference for my claim, I was on it. Two weeks later, my vehicle is recovered and held by the detectives for fingerprinting, and that same week it's at the body shop that I want to repair my vehicle. On June 15th, my insurance company sends me a 'vehicle theft affidavit' that I must have notarized and return so that they can process my claim without any further delays.I have my friend take me the next day to the notary where I had to make a written statement about the theft of my vehicle and I had to swear that this was the whole truth, which I did, and I mailed it. The end of June the body shop starts fixing the repairs that my insurance company authorized ... everything is looking good. My claim, is for the amount of 3800.00 and I have a 900.00 deductible so my insurance company is looking at 2900.00 to settle my claim and everyone is happy. By the end of July, when I have heard NOTHING from the body shop about my car and NOTHING from my insurance company, and we are now in the third month of faithfully making my car payment and still, I have NO transportation, I call the body-shop and they were waiting for a part needed to finish my car but they told me that it would be done within the week. The second week of August, the body shop owner is calling me because nobody from my insurance company will return their phone calls and until they receive payment for services rendered, my car isn't going to leave that shop. Last week of August, I am told by the owner of the body shop that my insurance company is now refusing to pay them. :shock: :?: After numerous attempts to contact my adjuster, who is definitely away from his desk a lot more than he is at his desk, I am told by my adjuster's supervisor that my claim was under investigation and within a week or two, I would be receiving a letter from an attorney with a date and time reserved especially for me for an'examination under oath.' September 18th, at 9am, my attendance at a law office located almost 2hours from my home is mandatory and there are 13 different documents and demands that I must bring with me as well. Interesting enough, not one of those documents was a request for the police report. But, phone records and loan documents are what they need to render a decision on my claim?? Making this appointment was just physically impossible for me so I called and rescheduled for October 16th, 2007 which is exactly five months since I made my claim. I have filed two complaints with the Department of Insurance and the Better Business Bureau. I have given the attorney and my insurance company permission to obtain the records that they have demanded me to provide but I have informed them both that unless they want documents that pertain directly to my claim, it would be their responsibility,NOT MINE, to get. Certainly, five months is a long enough period of time for them to have gotten any and all documents they need to render a decision on my claim. I have missed days of work and doctors appointments that are vital to me being on this earth, as I am currently on the heart transplant list at UCLA medical center and the insurance company that I thought I was paying to help me in time of need has only victimized me and caused me undue hardships. By the way, my examination under oath has been changed to a law office that's only about 20 minutes from my home and that change didn't come about until the insurance company had to answer the department of insurance regarding my complaint. I received a promising letter from the department of insurance today telling me that this file is open and their investigation is active.. Sorry this is so long but the last thing I'd like to say is when the adjuster was at the body shop making an estimate for the damages on my vehicle, he made the statement that it looked like an inside job to him. WHY? How can a person who represents a company that I pay every month to be on my side, make such a slanderous statement?! :?: :roll: :idea:
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:30 am Post Subject: 9 months of making payments on a car thats not accessible...
:shock: will make you nuts!! First of all, I owe everyone an apology, especially you Lori, for sounding so childish and generalizing a profession based on the ignorant claims manager that's employed by explorer insurance company. You have really been a great support for me and given me a place to vent this whole situation. I was speaking out of anger and frustration rather than common sense and I know that just because explorer insurance company practices and utilizes bad faith tactics in it's entirety, there are an abundance of insurance companies that won't allow or tolerate this type of scandalous activity.
You know Lori.. the last time I spoke to my attorney was when I received the letter from explorer stating that they were denying my claim on the grounds that I have NOT been compliant to their demands. I was so mad because I know that I have given them every document they requested and I provided the names of every person who's phone number was on my March phone bill. At the EUO, when explorer's attorney stated the REASON my claim was under investigation was because...'the date of the theft on the police report and the date that I gave them on my sworn affidavit was different by a day,' I know that my explanation of working graveyards and beginning work on the 15th and ending my shift on the 16th... should have solved their suspicions. Not to mention that on my sworn affidavit, she asked me,' on what date did you last see or drive your vehicle.... I said the 15th which to me shouldn't be the same as the date on the police report, logically speaking anyways. See how I get sidetracked...lol... anyways, back to my lawyer.. he told me that being this is the second time that explorer has authorized the bodyshop to fix my car and informing the bodyshop that the check was authorized and being sent to them on the day they spoke means that...1.explorer is playing games 2. obviously hoping that I wouldn't make my car payment so that it would become a repossession 3. hoping the bodyshop will lien sale my car 4. and my attorney said that there isn't a jury or a group of 12 people anywhere that would consider 9 months a reasonable amount of time to investigate a claim. The claims manager denied my claim based on the lies that explorer felt they HAD to stick with because of my constant correspondance with the department of insurance, obviously forcing explorer to explain their actions. It should be interesting to see how they are going to prove their lies about me not complying and my attorney not responding to their requests when I have the actual documents with the cover sheets, that were faxed and received by explorers attorney during the dates that explorer has listed on my denial, of me being non compliant to demands. Okay.. I understand that obviously this is going to end up in a court room... but from this point, when approximately will I get my day in court? Here is another question... should I get a loan to at least pay for my car to get out of the bodyshop or will that release explorer from having any obligations to pay for my car? Those are a couple of questions that I haven't been able to ask my lawyer and maybe won't need to if I can find out the answers. Seems like I can't stop typing everytime I start talking about this whole thing... but it's an issue that is not easily discussed with my friends because being 20 years old most of them have never been through any of these things that I have encountered the past 9 months. Thanks again Lori for your help and support...... Justin :!: :shock: :!:
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:01 pm Post Subject:
First of all, I owe everyone an apology, especially you Lori, for sounding so childish and generalizing a profession based on the ignorant claims manager that's employed by explorer insurance company. You have really been a great support for me and given me a place to vent this whole situation. I was speaking out of anger and frustration rather than common sense and I know that just because explorer insurance company practices and utilizes bad faith tactics in it's entirety, there are an abundance of insurance companies that won't allow or tolerate this type of scandalous activity.
I understand your frustration Justin and your apology is accepted, try and remember that the same profession that you are angry with (rightfully so!) is also the same ones trying to help you (here) ok? ok....now on with it..Be sure and run this by your attorney hon...but I think yes, you should be able to pay to get your car out without compromising your postition...but please run this by him first! You shouldn't have ANY contact with the carrier at all now that you are attorney rep'd...any contact from them, you should say, 'call my attorney'....also you shouldn't do ANYTHING regarding this claim without making sure it's ok with him...We don't want to screw anything up this late in the game..ok?
Based on all the information you have provided us, and throw in your health problems being made worse by this mess, I see no reason that you should'n't emerge victorious in this bad faith suit, which ''can be'' huge amounts of money...You see bad faith can also carry puniative damages ! Meaning a jury or judge can elect to ''punish'' the insurance company ON TOP of your actual damage and any 'injury' settlement you have coming... And typcially they do, and in a big way...all jurys (let's face it) have a bit of a burr under their saddle for 'big mean insurance companys' taking advantage of the ''little guy'' and when you (again) add your health issues into this, and the fact that you have fully cooperated...personally I think the sky is the limit....BUT.........this can take a long long time, they will likely do their best to 'starve you out', and drag this out as long as possible then try and settle on the court house steps right before it goes to trial...sorry but this is the way these things generally go....
If you have confidence in your attorney, and I think you do...also attorneys LOVE a ''good'' bad faith case, because (as I said) the monetary awards can be huge...I don't want to get your hopes up....but it is true...if you can remain patient!
My advise to you is to stay in contact with your attorney, contact him atleast every 30 days if he hasn't given you a progress report...Do what you have to, to stay solvent yourself. And of course feel free to come and talk to us anytime...also make sure you let us know the status, (i get ''involved'' and ''invested'' in these claims, and kind of a bummer when I/we don't find out the outcome! :cry: )
Justin, has your attorney mentioned any 'figure' at all? That he will be demanding?
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 09:41 pm Post Subject:
No, my attorney and I haven't discussed an amount yet... the last time we sat down and had a conversation was when explorer had approved the bodyshop to fix my car, for the second time. The person from explorer that called the bodyshop said that the check was on her desk and she was going to mail it that afternoon. At that point, we thought that explorer was trying to make things right so we didn't discuss any dollar amounts. Not that it should really concern me, but, shouldn't the bodyshop also have some type of lawsuit going against explorer? Afterall, twice now they have authorized the car to be fixed and right before the bodyshop completes the work, explorer backs out of paying... and how can a check be made out to the bodyshop and then there is no sign of that check? What I am asking is... who and where did the check come from originally and who would have the power to stop that check from going to it's intended payee? I have had no choice but to be patient through all of this... 9 months making payments on a car that I have no access to... heck what is 9 more months..lol...
I know that there could be a large amount of money here but like I have said from the beginning... just having my vehicle back would make my life so much easier.
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 09:50 pm Post Subject:
Not that it should really concern me, but, shouldn't the bodyshop also have some type of lawsuit going against explorer?
I was thinking that same thing, if they do buisness with them some, and the adjuster guaranteed payment, well though would just be word against word i suppose that the adjuster did guarantee this payment.......what does body shop say? Other than they can't release the car without payment...you know might not be a bad idea for the body shop (if they can) to file a DOI complaint as well......What I am asking is... who and where did the check come from originally and who would have the power to stop that check from going to it's intended payee?
All companies are different of course, but both I have worked for I (as an adjuster) could easily do this, issue payment then stop pay on the draft and not send it, that's not a big deal to do at all..almost like you writing a check to me leaving it on your kitchen counter waiting to mail then next day deciding not to and tearing it up and removing/scratching it out form your check register...I have had no choice but to be patient through all of this... 9 months making payments on a car that I have no access to... heck what is 9 more months..lol.
Oh, honey, I feel so bad for you...nine months is a loooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnggggggggg time for a young man to make payments on a vehicle he can't drive!I know that there could be a large amount of money here but like I have said from the beginning... just having my vehicle back would make my life so much easier.
I know the idiots....''would've'' being the operative word...it's too late for that now, they can't back up the past nine months! so they will need to pay the price for this irreprehensible behavior...Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 02:16 pm Post Subject:
Lori.. I can't thank you enough for all of the information and support!!! One more quick question because I am trying to somewhat understand the process ... obviously someone above the adjuster issues the checks from explorer... right..... so, if the adjuster stops the check from being sent who does he have to answer to when I come at them with a lawsuit? Is there a way to go around the adjuster and the claims supervisor because obviously someone from explorer is on my side if there has been 2 checks made out to the bodyshop for the repair of my vehicle... right? I think I will pass the information on to the bodyshop about possibly filing a complaint with the DOI, and for them to start a lawsuit against explorer because it has gone from a 2900.00 repair job, to 25.00 a day storage fee. 9 months at 25.00 a day is NOT my problem!! right??? The owner of the bodyshop feels so bad for me and is so disgusted with explorer that he has promised me that he will not lien sale my car and as long as I keep my payments up to date the finance company can't legally take possession of it either.. right? LOL... okay 3 or 4 more quick questions. You know I really appreciate the information and I am learning from this experience.. that's for sure!!! :roll: :twisted:
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:39 am Post Subject:
obviously someone above the adjuster issues the checks from explorer... right.....
No, that is not necessarily true...I (as an adjuster) issue all the drafts on the claims I work myself...all adjusters have some 'draft authority' or claim authority that allows them to issue payments up to a certain dollar amount (generally speaking)...all companies work their own way though...but on your claim it would be my guess that the adjuster issued payment...so, if the adjuster stops the check from being sent who does he have to answer to when I come at them with a lawsuit
Well, this is more than just 'issueing a check' the adjuster some how changed their mind and denied (again) the claim.....I seriously doubt they would've done that without it going past a manager/supervisor. Most companies would have to have a supervisor of some sort review a claim for coverage denial...for this very reason...(bad faith)........so they (i would think) have someone over them that ok'd that........if not their a bigger moron that we already thought...no way in the world would i have pulled this payment back without having a supervisors 'tracks' in that claim...who they will answer to (adjuster and that claims branch manager) will be the VP of claims probably......ultimately...i would think they both have a good chance of lossing their jobs and they should....Is there a way to go around the adjuster and the claims supervisor because obviously someone from explorer is on my side if there has been 2 checks made out to the bodyshop for the repair of my vehicle... right?
Well you could just keep climbing the ladder, you ask the adjuster to talk to his/her boss, then ask that guy, who is your boss, and so on....I think I will pass the information on to the bodyshop about possibly filing a complaint with the DOI, and for them to start a lawsuit against explorer because it has gone from a 2900.00 repair job, to 25.00 a day storage fee. 9 months at 25.00 a day is NOT my problem!! right???
yes they should file a complaint...or suit...re: the storage etc...it is and it isn't your problem...if the shop will not release your vehicle without ALL of this being paid then your paying for the repair is moot right? If they won't release it till the storage is also paid....(hopefully they will let you have it if you decide to pay the bill .... and pursue this ins company for the storage).The owner of the bodyshop feels so bad for me and is so disgusted with explorer that he has promised me that he will not lien sale my car
I'm glad about that.....and as long as I keep my payments up to date the finance company can't legally take possession of it either.. right?
correct...they have no claim to your vehicle if your payments are current....Lori.. I can't thank you enough for all of the information and support!!! You know I really appreciate the information and I am learning from this experience.. that's for sure!!!
Truly my pleasure...ask anything any time and we'll try and help....be sure and keep us updated!
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 04:25 am Post Subject:
I am following this story and sure would be interested in knowing the outcome. I do hope you get compensated for all you have been through as you should be .I hope they pull that insurance company up too by the seat of their pants!
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 07:21 am Post Subject: UPDATE
Okay... now I am just getting more and more confused.. is this a game that explorer plays or is this what they consider, 'normal procedure' when it comes to handling claims? This morning, I got a call from my attorney's office telling me that I needed to come in asap and make some necessary changes to the statements I made under oath to explorer, about a month after my car had been stolen. Remember... the question that I was asked by explorer was, 'the date I last saw my vehicle... I said May 15,2007.' Since I worked graveyard my car was actually reported stolen on May 16,2007 and at my EUO, I was told by explorer's attorney that my claim was being so thoroughly investigated because of this one day discrepency. My attorney told me today that he has been going rounds with explorer's attorney because she keeps demanding more and more ridiculous documents or should I say explanations upon explanations. After I submitted my cell phone records for the month of May, I was then told that I needed to put the names of the persons whose numbers were on my bill. Neatly written, next to each number that I recognized, a name was printed next to the number. Well, according to explorer's attorney, my attorney should have known better than to submit that to her.... IT WAS RETURNED ON THE BASIS THAT IT WAS NOT LEGIBLE AND UNLESS MY ATTORNEY TYPED THE NAMES AND NUMBERS, I would not be cooperating or complying with explorer's demands giving explorer legal ground to deny my claim. Remember also that I received a letter from explorer's claim's manager, at the beginning of December stating my claim had been denied because my attorney had not responded to three demands made by explorer during the month of November. Anyways, today I did NOT make any changes because I answered the question correctly and at the EUO, I gave a detailed explanation as to why I said the 15th and WHY the police report says the 16th. Correct me if I am wrong but I am NOT going to start changing my story to better satisfy explorer's attorney or anyone else at explorer..... the truth doesn't change. Just because they obviously have all become very good liars and manipulators doesn't mean that I am going to become like them or play by their rules. It is amazing that this insurance company still wants to play such ridiculous games and have NO remorse for the fact that I HAVEN'T HAD A VEHICLE FOR 8 MONTHS!!! The bodyshop has contacted the DOI in regards to explorer and this whole ordeal, and they have also started a lawsuit of their own. I just hope that by the time this is over, explorer will NEVER have the opportunity to do this to anyone else and their punishment will be severe enough to remind them constantly that there is NO future OR financial gain for a company that handles claims with bad faith tactics.
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:23 pm Post Subject:
now I am just getting more and more confused.. is this a game that explorer plays or is this what they consider, 'normal procedure' when it comes to handling claims?
I don't know, I think they are just hopelessly inept, frankly.......I needed to put the names of the persons whose numbers were on my bill.
I found this a little over board when you first mentioned it, and honestly felt it was more of a...''if we can get him to do some of our work then we will'' type thing.....they could've got those numbers themselves...or for pete's sake call it! stupid...WAIT!
Well, according to explorer's attorney,
where did you get this information? Have YOU been talking to their attorney? cause you shouldn't be! all communication should be going thru your attorney first, then he to you!IT WAS RETURNED ON THE BASIS THAT IT WAS NOT LEGIBLE AND UNLESS MY ATTORNEY TYPED THE NAMES AND NUMBERS, I would not be cooperating or complying with explorer's demands giving explorer legal ground to deny my claim.
This is/was a stall, and a poor attempt (in my opinion) to try and cover their own tails....Correct me if I am wrong but I am NOT going to start changing my story to better satisfy explorer's attorney or anyone else at explorer..... the truth doesn't change
EXACTLY....you fully explained (did you not) more than once the 'date problem' right? and as to the names could anyone of average intelligence, (or a judge) make out CLEARLY the names you provided?It is amazing that this insurance company still wants to play such ridiculous games
"I" think that what they are trying to do now is cover cover cover their butts...in any way shape or form they can come up with...bad faith claims (as I've said) are really really expensive and bad for a carrier....and have NO remorse for the fact that I HAVEN'T HAD A VEHICLE FOR 8 MONTHS!!!
We established a long time ago their lack of empathy, this does not surprise me in the slightest.....The bodyshop has contacted the DOI in regards to explorer and this whole ordeal, and they have also started a lawsuit of their own
THIS THRILLS THE SOCKS OFF OF ME!
I just hope that by the time this is over, explorer will NEVER have the opportunity to do this to anyone else and their punishment will be severe enough to remind them constantly that there is NO future OR financial gain for a company that handles claims with bad faith tactics.
I agree and hope so too..Listen, what does your attorney say about all of this? re: the phone number/names, and all the other things they are now requesting? What is his advise to you? He surely doesn't allow you to have any 'direct' contact with them at all does he?
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 01:23 pm Post Subject: I JUST REALIZED A VERY IMPORTANT FACT...
Listen to this one.. there really IS NOT a one day discrepency between the police report and my sworn affidavit so if explorer tries to use that as there reason for denying my claim they better get some life jackets!!!lol Seriously though, the police report also says that the last time I saw my vehicle was on the 15th BUT it states that upon verification of my employment at von's pavilion and my coworkers as witnesses that I had been working the graveyard shift, I called the sheriff's to report my vehicle was gone in the early morning of the 16th. It says in the report that the actual time of the theft was unknown but that it happened between 11pm on the 15th and 5:30am on the 16th. The date at the top of the police report, of course says, May 16th but obviously either the claims manager is illiterate, amongst many other things, as well as explorer's attorney, or like I have said from the beginning... explorer has disregarded the police report because they are busy trying to impersonate police officers and create theories of their own. If the officer that took my report doubted me or felt I had lied to him, I would have been in serious trouble. Rather than that officer writing a stolen vehicle report he would have been booking me into jail for filing a false police report and lying to an officer of the law, which are both felonies. NOT ONE IMPLICATION IS MADE BY THE OFFICER THAT TOOK THE THEFT REPORT NOR BY THE OFFICER THAT RECOVERED MY VEHICLE that I had been dishonest or could have possibly been involved in the theft of my own vehicle. If insurance companies don't have to accept the facts of police reports as truths and launch investigations that not only last for months but supplement trained police officers with insurance adjusters....somebody needs to come up with some serious guidelines and rules for insurance companies to follow or consumers aren't going to stand a chance at having their claims paid. Impersonating a police officer is also a felony and I can think of at least 2 employees that work for explorer insurance company that should be reported..LOL. So, my whole point to this is just simply... where is the one day discrepency that has kept my claim from being settled this past 8 months??? Must be in the imaginations of those who are so diligently trying to solve the case of JUSTIN'S STOLEN MONTE CARLO, based on their own speculations and theories rather than facts, substituting insurance adjusters in place of police officers, and all of whom are employed by none other than EXPLORER INSURANCE COMPANY. Explorers attorney is supposed to be contacting my attorney on Thursday with their final decision about my claim. If they still have no decision, my attorney is prepared to file the lawsuit against explorer for an amount between 1 million and 3 million, in court, on Friday morning. :shock: :twisted: :twisted: :evil:
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