by Guest » Thu May 14, 2009 12:15 am
I have a severe issue with a major life insurance company,
and yet there seems to be no recourse, no hope, and no interest on
the part of the company's representatives to resolve this issue.
In an honest world I feel as thought this would have been resolved
long ago, and I am hesitant to act on any course of action which could
put me in financial or physical harm's way.
There is a life insurance policy which was opened for me when I was born, by the then employer of my father, through an personal accountant whose
identity I do not know. I only became aware of this when I turned 21,
and began receiving bills in the employer's name. I do not know how the
insurance company learned how to mail me.
This caused me immense confusion and apprehension at the time, not being aware of any aspect of the situation personally, nor being able to find out the identity of the addressee of these bills. It literally took me years to find out that he was the prior employer of my father's, and the whole time I was led to wonder who the beneficiary might be, and in my more paranoid moments, if there could be someone out there waiting for the amount of the account to be worth coming after me.
At this point I have had many calls with the employer, and personally met him one time. He has stated that he set up life insurance policies for more than one employee's child as a gift, but that he has no knowledge of these accounts since a CPA set them all up for him. They were idle gestures, and I honestly believed him when he said that he does not believe he owns any accounts of this kind personally.
I know that he does. I receive the mail, and I see his name, my name, and the policy number. This insurance company sends me their privacy policies, which is actually somewhat amusing since they won't talk to me on the phone. One representative even went so far as to sympathize with me, expressing that I really didn't have any options. I feel that the prior employer feels me to be a severe bother, and after meeting with me and rejecting the billing papers I had with me might actually view me as a con man or something of that nature. Our once sporadic conversations have ceased.
I want to know who the beneficiary is, what the policy is worth, and I want it to be owned by me, or at the very least by one of my siblings. Someone I know.
What options do I have? The policy owner is tired of me and trusts me less than I trust him, hardly remembers my father at all, and the company refuses to talk to me at all. The cpa is a complete unknown. Soon I will likely be starting a family and I need to find some resolution on this.
What can I do?
and yet there seems to be no recourse, no hope, and no interest on
the part of the company's representatives to resolve this issue.
In an honest world I feel as thought this would have been resolved
long ago, and I am hesitant to act on any course of action which could
put me in financial or physical harm's way.
There is a life insurance policy which was opened for me when I was born, by the then employer of my father, through an personal accountant whose
identity I do not know. I only became aware of this when I turned 21,
and began receiving bills in the employer's name. I do not know how the
insurance company learned how to mail me.
This caused me immense confusion and apprehension at the time, not being aware of any aspect of the situation personally, nor being able to find out the identity of the addressee of these bills. It literally took me years to find out that he was the prior employer of my father's, and the whole time I was led to wonder who the beneficiary might be, and in my more paranoid moments, if there could be someone out there waiting for the amount of the account to be worth coming after me.
At this point I have had many calls with the employer, and personally met him one time. He has stated that he set up life insurance policies for more than one employee's child as a gift, but that he has no knowledge of these accounts since a CPA set them all up for him. They were idle gestures, and I honestly believed him when he said that he does not believe he owns any accounts of this kind personally.
I know that he does. I receive the mail, and I see his name, my name, and the policy number. This insurance company sends me their privacy policies, which is actually somewhat amusing since they won't talk to me on the phone. One representative even went so far as to sympathize with me, expressing that I really didn't have any options. I feel that the prior employer feels me to be a severe bother, and after meeting with me and rejecting the billing papers I had with me might actually view me as a con man or something of that nature. Our once sporadic conversations have ceased.
I want to know who the beneficiary is, what the policy is worth, and I want it to be owned by me, or at the very least by one of my siblings. Someone I know.
What options do I have? The policy owner is tired of me and trusts me less than I trust him, hardly remembers my father at all, and the company refuses to talk to me at all. The cpa is a complete unknown. Soon I will likely be starting a family and I need to find some resolution on this.
What can I do?
Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 04:58 am Post Subject:
I want to know who the beneficiary is, what the policy is worth, and I want it to be owned by me, or at the very least by one of my siblings. Someone I know.
Well, the insurer wouldn't divulge any information about the policy to anyone apart from the owner/insured & the beneficiary. So, they are right in not telling you about the policy.
Now, I have a confusion if the former employer remained the owner of the policy for all these years how come you are receiving the bills from the insurance company. As far I know the owner of the policy would receive the bills regarding premium payment.
Also, I fail to understand how the employer of your father can buy a plan on your name when he has no insurable interest on you.
Is your father still alive, James?
Thanks,
Rupert
Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 06:34 am Post Subject:
The OP poses a great question and an obvious point of concern.
Rupert is right on target with this:
Now, I have a confusion if the former employer remained the owner of the policy for all these years how come you are receiving the bills from the insurance company. As far I know the owner of the policy would receive the bills regarding premium payment
The policyowner is normally that premium payor. The only exceptions that I have ever seen are premiums that are paid from a trust, and normally the trust own the policy. This is a very common practice. As such, common sense would dictate that since you, being billed for the premiums, would lead to you being the policyowner. As such, you would have all of the rights assigned to the contract. If you're not the policyowner, you have no rights.
Another nugget of wisdom:
Also, I fail to understand how the employer of your father can buy a plan on your name when he has no insurable interest on you.
Key in Rupert's comment was "can BUY" and "insurable interest." Was the employer related to you or your father? The only other way to establish an insurable interest would be economically/financially, and I can't see that here. Insurable interest in life insurance only has to exist at the time of purchase, but need not be there after that point. So- in order for the employer to buy insurance on you, he had to have that insurable interest.
There is much more to this. I also need to know a couple of other things to echo Rupert. Is your father still alive? If so, you need to get him involved in this. If not, we can still help you. There are vaaaays ve can make them talk.... :wink:
Secondly, personally this would drive me nuts. Give us as many details as you can without getting too detailed. Nothing that can lead to identity. Kind of policy, premium, any tax notices, insurance company, but no policy numbers, etc.
InsTeacher 8)
Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 11:15 am Post Subject:
in order for the employer to buy insurance on you, he had to have that insurable interest.
He bought it when the OP was born, as a 'gift'...when buying life ins. for a child you don't have to have insurable interest...I've done it several times, and have had it done for my children..Is your father still alive? If so, you need to get him involved in this
absolutely!jjames, what country/state are you in? What is the name of the insurance company, and do you know what 'type' of life policy it is, (ie term, whole, universal etc)..?
physical harm's way.
in my more paranoid moments, if there could be someone out there waiting for the amount of the account to be worth coming after me.
Try to simmer down about all of this I doubt he's waiting to bump you off...would've done that some time back I'd bet..Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 03:41 pm Post Subject:
ouch.. hope you had solve this problem now... good luck
Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 11:04 pm Post Subject:
Rupert W Bradson
Well, the insurer wouldn't divulge any information about the policy to anyone apart from the owner/insured & the beneficiary. So, they are right in not telling you about the policy.
Fair enough. As frustrated as I am I still understand that. But they won't even listen to me, talk at all.
Now, I have a confusion if the former employer remained the owner of the policy for all these years how come you are receiving the bills from the insurance company. As far I know the owner of the policy would receive the bills regarding premium payment.
I don't know.
Also, I fail to understand how the employer of your father can buy a plan on your name when he has no insurable interest on you.
I don't know. I know they used to be friends and then my dad said that neither of them got along anymore. That was thirty years ago, and second hand from my mother.
Is your father still alive, James?
Yes, we speak occasionally. He's the reason I found out who the employer was and some basics about the relationship. He doesn't seem to be too interested.
InsTeacher
The policyowner is normally that premium payor. The only exceptions that I have ever seen are premiums that are paid from a trust, and normally the trust own the policy. This is a very common practice. As such, common sense would dictate that since you, being billed for the premiums, would lead to you being the policyowner. As such, you would have all of the rights assigned to the contract. If you're not the policyowner, you have no rights.
So I haven't received a bill in a year or so. Does that mean it's too late to even participate in my life insurance? The company won't talk to me at all, so I wouldn't pay the bills, and now I regret that choice.
Key in Rupert's comment was "can BUY" and "insurable interest." Was the employer related to you or your father? The only other way to establish an insurable interest would be economically/financially, and I can't see that here. Insurable interest in life insurance only has to exist at the time of purchase, but need not be there after that point. So- in order for the employer to buy insurance on you, he had to have that insurable interest.
He was not related. I don't understance what inurable interest is.
There is much more to this. I also need to know a couple of other things to echo Rupert. Is your father still alive? If so, you need to get him involved in this. If not, we can still help you. There are vaaaays ve can make them talk....
I can reach him, but he doesn't seem too interested. He already cashed out the insurance policies my mother set up years ago to purchase a boat, so I don't want to involve him too much. I don't know if he has any financial or personal interest at all.
Secondly, personally this would drive me nuts.
I have been trying to figure this out for years, and can't stand it. Thank you.
Give us as many details as you can without getting too detailed. Nothing that can lead to identity. Kind of policy, premium, any tax notices, insurance company, but no policy numbers, etc.
I believe it is term life, premium (?), I've seen nothing about taxes, Hartford. Given the attention and interest at this site I'm going to compile the dates and kinds of notices I've received.
Lori?
He bought it when the OP was born, as a 'gift'...when buying life ins. for a child you don't have to have insurable interest...I've done it several times, and have had it done for my children..
Make sure they can figure out what's going on! :) I have thought about initiating things to help nieces and nephews, and think it needs to happen early, but I don't know much about the advantage to them.
jjames, what country/state are you in? What is the name of the insurance company, and do you know what 'type' of life policy it is, (ie term, whole, universal etc)..?
Washington state, Hartford, I believe it's term. I'll check tonight.
Try to simmer down about all of this I doubt he's waiting to bump you off...would've done that some time back I'd bet..
I haven't been worried about that in years. He seemed quite nice. He seemed confused and baffled as well. He regards me as a threat or a burden or something, I think.
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 01:24 am Post Subject:
Lori said:
He bought it when the OP was born, as a 'gift'...when buying life ins. for a child you don't have to have insurable interest...I've done it several times, and have had it done for my children..
Typically, the donor is related to the insured child; parent, grandparent (98% of the time), and these people have, by law, an insurable interest. Brothers and sisters do, too, as well as adopted kids/parents. Most other relatives don't...period. And non-relatives, other than in business, don't. On the "no" list are aunts/uncles, niece/nephew, cousins, other mariage-type relatives and step-type relationships. In addition, an employer wishing to give a gift of life insurance normally doesn't actually own the policy. They'll most commonly just increase the employee's pay to cover the cost of the premium, and the employee owns the policy on the kid.
Sorry 'bout this, but there must always be an insurable interest when purchasing life insurance, even if purchased on the life of a minor. You're more than likely referring to "juvenile" life insurance which is purchased on the life of a minor. These are normal, plain old permanent, cash value life insurance policies which still require an insurable interest. If purchased as a gift and the donor wishes to pay the premiums, that can easily be arranged. Normally, the donor is the owner of the policy and has all rights to the policy as any owner would have. The concept of insurable interest inherent in juvenile life insurance is done through the life insurance contract itself. These policies contain an "age of majority" which is normally 18 or 21 years of age. When the child reaches the specified age, ownership of the policy automatically changes to the child, thereby eventually filling the interest requirement. The concept of insurable interest is met as the policy is not primarily purchased for the intention of a donor to collect a death benefit (although that would apply if the child died) but rather as you stated...a "gift." The "gift" would be the policy, and the purchase here is with the intention of gifting the policy for the kid's needs as he ages, gets married, has kids, etc. It also locks in the childs' insurability.
Typically, the donor is related to the insured child; parent, grandparent (98% of the time), which have, by law, an insurable interest. Brothers and sisters do, too. Most other relatives don't...period, and non-relatives, other than in business arrangements don't. On the "no" list are aunts/uncles, niece/nephew, cousins, other mariage-type relatives and step-type relationships. In addition, an employer wishing to give a gift of life insurance normally doesn't actually buy the policy. They'll most commonly just increase the employee's pay to cover the cost of the premium.
TO the OP: We still don't know if your father and his employer were at all related, which could have an impact on the situation. We know that dad's still alive, but you two don't talk much.
We also know that it's a term policy, although you didn't state the length of the contract. You probably know that term policies only run for a period of time and will expire unless it allows renewal and it's actually renewed through the payment of the higher step-rate premium.
So, there's a definite possibility that since it was a term policy, and noting that you haven't received a premium notice in a year or so, my hunch (and I could be wrong) is that the term policy's expired and that's the end of that. How often were you getting premium notices when you were actually getting them? Monthly? Quarterly? Hmmmmm????
If it's expired, then obviously your quest has ended. Try one more time and call the carrier to simply see if the policy is still in-force. If you're the insured, they might at least give you that. My gut tells me that it's not in-force anymore because of the term aspect. I might be easily wrong, though.
InsTeacher 8)
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 03:37 am Post Subject:
Hi jjames,
A condition in which the person applying for insurance and the person who is to receive the policy benefit will suffer an emotional or financial loss, if any untouched event occurs. Without insurable interest, an insurance contract is invalid.
I like the way they have defined "insurable interest" here.
Given the attention and interest at this site I'm going to compile the dates and kinds of notices I've received.
That's nice of you! You actually have so many friends over here...that you don't need to worry at all.
If it's term life...what about it's renewals? Don't you have any notification?
Steven
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 04:32 am Post Subject:
Hi James, thanks for clarifying.
He was not related. I don't understance what inurable interest is.
Well, it can be explained as...the person who's buying out the policy would suffer some kind of financial loss at the death of the insured. And, since the employer wasn't related anyway to you, he hadn't had any insurable interest on you.
I believe it is term life, premium (?), I've seen nothing about taxes, Hartford. Given the attention and interest at this site I'm going to compile the dates and kinds of notices I've received.
If that is so then there is a chance that the term might have expired by now. How old the policy is, by the way?
Teacher,
I only became aware of this when I turned 21,
and began receiving bills in the employer's name. I do not know how the
insurance company learned how to mail me.
This part of OPs post I have found very curious. What do you say?
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 12:51 am Post Subject:
I have a severe issue with a major life insurance company,
and yet there seems to be no recourse, no hope, and no interest on
the part of the company's representatives to resolve this issue.
That is because, to them, there is no issue. There is a life insurance policy and that policy has an owner and a beneficiary.
There is a life insurance policy which was opened for me when I was born, by the then employer of my father, through an personal accountant whose identity I do not know.
The policy wasn't opened for you. It was opened ON you. There was and is no way for you to benefit from this policy unless the owner of the policy wants you to benefit. I have no idea what "through an personal accountant" means. Agents/brokers do this and not accountants.
I only became aware of this when I turned 21,
and began receiving bills in the employer's name. I do not know how the
insurance company learned how to mail me.
This makes no sense at all.
At this point I have had many calls with the employer, and personally met him one time. He has stated that he set up life insurance policies for more than one employee's child as a gift, but that he has no knowledge of these accounts since a CPA set them all up for him. They were idle gestures, and I honestly believed him when he said that he does not believe he owns any accounts of this kind personally.
He either is lying or is telling the truth. If he's telling the truth, someone else is paying the premiums and has been recieiving the statements.
I want to know who the beneficiary is, what the policy is worth, and I want it to be owned by me, or at the very least by one of my siblings. Someone I know.
Because you aren't the owner, you have no rights at all.
What options do I have?
You need someone to be honest with you. The insurance company isn't allowed to talk to you since it isn't your policy. Here are three possibilities. They all involve some sort of deception.
1) The employer is your real father. (sorry about that)
2) The employer started the policy, but your parents have been paying the premium. Your folks see no benefit in letting you know about the insurance policy until you are a little older. (I don't know how the employer was able to start the policy without lying on the application.)
3) The employer started the policy and has been paying the premiums. It is a way for him to have money grow tax deferred and/or get a tax free death benefit when you die. (It would still take lying on the application.)
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 01:50 am Post Subject:
Typically, the donor is related to the insured child; parent, grandparent (98% of the time), and these people have, by law, an insurable interest. Brothers and sisters do, too, as well as adopted kids/parents. Most other relatives don't...period. And non-relatives, other than in business, don't. On the "no" list are aunts/uncles, niece/nephew, cousins, other mariage-type relatives and step-type relationships. In addition, an employer wishing to give a gift of life insurance normally doesn't actually own the policy. They'll most commonly just increase the employee's pay to cover the cost of the premium, and the employee owns the policy on the kid.
Ok, I get it...I guess when I think of 'insurable interest' I think of someone losing financially as a result of the insured's death..which of course a parent or grandparent would not have...actually no one loses (finacially speaking ONLY) if a child dies...so that's where I'm getting sideways.. :wink:A condition in which the person applying for insurance and the person who is to receive the policy benefit will suffer an emotional or financial loss, if any untouched event occurs. Without insurable interest, an insurance contract is invalid.
There we go...that makes more sense to me...I only became aware of this when I turned 21,
Could this maybe be that policy converted to him at this age...ie as ins teacher said,and began receiving bills
These policies contain an "age of majority" which is normally 18 or 21 years of age. When the child reaches the specified age, ownership of the policy automatically changes to the child
He regards me as a threat or a burden or something, I think.
huh? how so?Add your comment