by Guest » Wed Sep 19, 2007 04:03 pm
Lincoln Benefit Life
2940 South 84th Street
Lincoln, Nebraska 68501-0469
I signed up for a term life policy 4 years ago that was supposed to be switched to a "whole life" policy after the first year. The way it was explained to me (because I didn't even want to sign up for the term because it was too expensive - $1200) was that after the first year I could switch to the whole life policy which cost $5000 and get a credit for the $1200 for the first year which is what I did. The insurance broker faxed me over the pages on a rush basis after the first year to switch the policy and I faxed them back to her the same day. What I believe was the terms and conditions page had been recopied so many times that you can't even read it. A few weeks later the policy book was delivered to me by the agent. The way she had described the policy was that my money would only grow so according to what she told me I should have $15000 plus interest. What I have now is nothing. I in theory have $12000 because they deduct "costs" and "expenses" - none of which she told me when she was selling me the policy. She told me the reason is because when she was explaining the policy to me her laptop computer wouldn't allow her to show me the costs and expenses. Another feature she failed to tell me about is that I have to be in the policy for 20 years! If I pull out in advance I forfeit $14300. When I received my last statement I didn't understand the costs and expenses and called up Lincoln Benefit to find out what was going on and I found out then for the first time that Lincoln Benefit (my insurance company) no longer sells whole life policies and I had been signed up for an "adjustable flexible" policy. I explained that I had never even heard my insurance broker utter those words and that she had only referred to the policy as a whole life policy. My agent had never told me about costs and expenses and never explained the $14300 default fee if I pulled out before 20 years. She did a bait and switch on me. Lincon's complaint department did an investigation and have said everything is on the up and up and I have no recourse. I was totally lied to and relied on everything she told me about this policy. I was never informed AT ALL about the $14,300 default fee or about the costs and expenses - she simply described my money growing each and every year so by now I would have the $150000 I've put in plus around 5% interest. Lincoln agreed to give me back $5000 if I terminated my policy. However, they kept my remaining $10,000. DON'T DO BUSINESS WITH THIS COMPANY IF YOU WISH TO KEEP YOUR MONEY - THEY ARE THIEVES AND LIARS. I've tried everything I can do to get my money back but it appears I would have to sue them and I just don't know what my chances would be. I work with a law firm and even the lawyers here told me they're unable to understand my policy in full. I depended on Lincoln to explain to me what I was buying and by leaving out vital details I was in fact lied to. A partner at my firm (a very intelligent attorney) told me that even he had been the victim of a similar policy so it can't be just me. I honestly don't know how they can get away with this but it appears they can. I work 13 hours a day as a secretary to support my family and the $10,000 they ended up keeping was two years of my bonuses. This was money I thought I could use in the event of an emergency and now it is all gone.
2940 South 84th Street
Lincoln, Nebraska 68501-0469
I signed up for a term life policy 4 years ago that was supposed to be switched to a "whole life" policy after the first year. The way it was explained to me (because I didn't even want to sign up for the term because it was too expensive - $1200) was that after the first year I could switch to the whole life policy which cost $5000 and get a credit for the $1200 for the first year which is what I did. The insurance broker faxed me over the pages on a rush basis after the first year to switch the policy and I faxed them back to her the same day. What I believe was the terms and conditions page had been recopied so many times that you can't even read it. A few weeks later the policy book was delivered to me by the agent. The way she had described the policy was that my money would only grow so according to what she told me I should have $15000 plus interest. What I have now is nothing. I in theory have $12000 because they deduct "costs" and "expenses" - none of which she told me when she was selling me the policy. She told me the reason is because when she was explaining the policy to me her laptop computer wouldn't allow her to show me the costs and expenses. Another feature she failed to tell me about is that I have to be in the policy for 20 years! If I pull out in advance I forfeit $14300. When I received my last statement I didn't understand the costs and expenses and called up Lincoln Benefit to find out what was going on and I found out then for the first time that Lincoln Benefit (my insurance company) no longer sells whole life policies and I had been signed up for an "adjustable flexible" policy. I explained that I had never even heard my insurance broker utter those words and that she had only referred to the policy as a whole life policy. My agent had never told me about costs and expenses and never explained the $14300 default fee if I pulled out before 20 years. She did a bait and switch on me. Lincon's complaint department did an investigation and have said everything is on the up and up and I have no recourse. I was totally lied to and relied on everything she told me about this policy. I was never informed AT ALL about the $14,300 default fee or about the costs and expenses - she simply described my money growing each and every year so by now I would have the $150000 I've put in plus around 5% interest. Lincoln agreed to give me back $5000 if I terminated my policy. However, they kept my remaining $10,000. DON'T DO BUSINESS WITH THIS COMPANY IF YOU WISH TO KEEP YOUR MONEY - THEY ARE THIEVES AND LIARS. I've tried everything I can do to get my money back but it appears I would have to sue them and I just don't know what my chances would be. I work with a law firm and even the lawyers here told me they're unable to understand my policy in full. I depended on Lincoln to explain to me what I was buying and by leaving out vital details I was in fact lied to. A partner at my firm (a very intelligent attorney) told me that even he had been the victim of a similar policy so it can't be just me. I honestly don't know how they can get away with this but it appears they can. I work 13 hours a day as a secretary to support my family and the $10,000 they ended up keeping was two years of my bonuses. This was money I thought I could use in the event of an emergency and now it is all gone.
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 09:42 am Post Subject:
If a policy is sold to provide an income . . .
it's called an ANNUITY.There is nothing wrong with selling a policy for the purpose of having it provide an income at a later date.
Not when the policy is called an annuity. But when you are speaking about life insurance, it's nothing other than a MISREPRESENTATION of the stated purpose in the contract. When you casually toss out the phrase "If a policy is sold to provide income then that is its purpose" you are leading others to believe their life insurance contract is an unending source of that stuff. It is not.It doesn't say that in the contract, but the contract does says an agent cannot say anything about the contract that isn't true. The only time the word INCOME is used in a life insurance contract is in the discussion of SETTLEMENT OPTIONS -- and it concerns only how the beneficiary will receive the death benefit proceeds.
At least two other people besides me have tried to share their knowledge with you, but you apparently are set in your beliefs and so incalcitrant as to disbelieve us all.
What is dangerous is those of you that insist on selling securities only for your clients to lose their money when the stock market crashes
Now you're making things up and changing the discussion. No one has said anything about selling securities or "guaranteeing" a municipality against default on their bonds because we all know that's not possible, and none of us can guarantee an insurance company won't go under either. Not even you. Try borrowing cash value in a policy from an insolvent company from the state's Guarantee Association and see what their answer is.
As far as the IRS goes, they can do nothing about an individual funding a life insurance policy to avoid paying taxes at a later date.
Nothing other than enforce the Modified Endowment Contract provisions in the Internal Revenue Code for those who believe you when you tell them "Mr. Client, you can put any amount of money in this account, unlike your Roth IRA that only lets you put in $5000 per year".
And there are also plenty of tax-protestors who don't believe the IRS even has authority to collect income taxes, too. (I don't think you're one of them because you like to refer to the Tax Code in support of your beliefs.)
I have dozens of agents that contact me on a daily basis and everyone of them think (you Max) are dead wrong! These agents see the value of selling life insurance for all kinds of different reasons other that for just a death benefit. So go take your LIBERAL ideas and spread them elsewhere.
Liberal ideas? :roll: The "liberal ideas" are all yours and those of your dozens of like-minded friends. When I transact insurance, I choose to observe state insurance laws instead, which most people would not characterize as "liberal" at all.
You and all your "dozens" of like-minded agents are guilty of misrepresentation when you liberally encourage people to buy life insurance with the belief that it is an income-producing product. You're simply wrong (others have labeled you "dangerous" and your ideas "scary") and you refuse to recognize it.
This is America, and everyone is entitled to an opinion. So, far be it for me to stand in the way of your ignorance . . . peace to you, brother, and don't let your clients' UL policies lapse with all that money borrowed out of them. A representative of the IRS may give you or your clients another opinion in person some day.
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 08:37 pm Post Subject:
You are so close minded! I don't misrepresent the contracts that I sell and the UL policies that I sell do not and will not lapse! They are funded properly! I'M DONE FIGHTING WITH YOU! I CAN'T ARGUE WITH IGNORANCE ANY LONGER! I'M DONE POSTING AND I AM OUT OF HERE! YOU'RE IGNORANCE CAUSES ME TOO MUCH FRUSTRATION! NOW POST WHAT EVER YOU WANT BECAUSE I WILL NOT BE READING IT.
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 08:38 pm Post Subject:
I like to argue with Max, but he is correct. If life insurance is not purchased PRIMArily for the death benefit it is not appropriate. This has nothing to do with equities.
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 08:20 am Post Subject:
I don't misrepresent the contracts that I sell and the UL policies that I sell do not and will not lapse! They are funded properly!
There is no way to "properly fund" a UL policy today with the intent to borrow money from cash value in the future, and even come close to guaranteeing the policy will not lapse.
This is also my last word on this.
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 07:30 pm Post Subject:
UL policies that I sell do not and will not lapse! They are funded properly!
Taxfreeincome, I believe that you believe that you are telling the truth.
I can even believe that they are currently funded properly.
How do you know that they will be funded properly in the future?
Human nature combined with an annually increasing cost of insurance is a recipe for disaster. These policies work much better in a laboratory than they do in the real world. Here's a difficult challange for you. Find a person who has had a UL policy for a long time AND if they keep putting in the same premium won't have the policy lapse.
You probably won't be able to do it. Even if policies are properly funded at some point, they tend not to stay that way.
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 08:30 pm Post Subject:
Sorry, I "lied". I would like to add to the comments above.
Here's a difficult challange for you. Find a person who has had a UL policy for a long time AND if they keep putting in the same premium won't have the policy lapse.
and, more importantly
Human nature combined with an annually increasing cost of insurance is a recipe for disaster.
100% accurate and honestly stated.
I can show you a real example of a person who was in his late-50s when he purchased a UL policy, paid his "scheduled" premium faithfully for more than 16 years (less than $200 per month for $100,000 death benefit), and received a lapse notice due to insufficient cash value. He was not my client, but the 75 year old husband of one of my students in November 2007.
We ordered an in-force illustration to solve for premiums to age 85, and the answer was $10,797 per year ($897+ per month!) to keep a $100,000 death benefit alive for only 10 more years. It would have cost over $269,000 to keep it going 25 years to age 100, with a final cash value of less than $1200. There was no way to win in this situation.
Borrowing any amount of money along the way . . . that would only have made things terribly worse.
I am currently working with a person, again not one of my clients, whose father's UL policy lapsed because a $55 loan interest payment was not made. Then he died. That's what I call terribly much worse. And his policy was continuing at the time under a Waiver of Monthly Deductions rider. That rider was not written to pay the loan interest.
I'm sure TaxFreeIncome, as "fkakvmar" said above, absolutely BELIEVES what he says. But some of us know it's not the way things really are in the world of UL insurance. And we're trying to let you all know that.
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