by Poppy » Wed Mar 18, 2009 07:12 am
I'll apologize ahead of time for the length of this post but this is a complicated situation I find myself in.
In Dec of 2008 my 10 wk old grandson passed away at my home. I was watching him and my granddaughter while my son and daughter in law were at work. I had done so ever since my granddaughter was born in 2004. Autopsy results came in the end of Jan. 2009 and the death was ruled suffocation (he had gotten rolled over and suffocated) and it was also ruled accidental. Believe me this was a crushing blow to all of us.
Immediately after getting the autopsy my son and his wife removed my granddaughter from my home (she was spending the night that particular day) A bit of background, my relationship with my daughter in law could be labeled strained at best.
Very shortly after that we were contacted by our home owners ins. advising us that our son and his wife had an atty and were seeking the limits of our policy (500,000.00 was our limits).
An appt. was set up with an investigator for our carrier and my husband and I both were present and the interview was recorded. We were asked to detail the events of the day our grandson died. The investigator told us that she would continue with her investigation and let us know how things were proceeding.
Approx. 2 weeks later she called and asked if she could take statements again from my husband and I, only this time separately. I said yes. The follow up interviews occurred and during these interviews much background of the relationship between us and our son and daughter in law was asked and we answered as thoroughly as we could. We made it plain and clear that we felt this was strictly a claim being made for financial gain.
A bit of background. My husband and I had basically raised our granddaughter. In her 4 yrs of life she had been with us 5 days a week since the age of 6 weeks and on average spent 3-4 nights a week withus as well. My son and his wife did not get married until our granddaughter was 3 yrs. old. One yr. later our grandson was born. My son and his wife both have decent jobs but have the taste for the high life, just not the pocketbook to support it. We had paid for our grandsons funeral as they did not have the money to do so, even though a bank acct. was set up by my daughter in laws mother to "cover expenses". We have no idea how much was given to that fund or what they did with the money collected but it did not go toward any of the costs related to the burial of our grandson.
After the separate interviews were completed the investigator told us that she still had no gotten any paperwork from our sons atty. and that she was going to put another call in to him that day or the next. She advised us to not discuss the case with them but assured us that we could still maintain contact. I had not seen my son or granddaughter since the day the autopsy report came back but my husband was maintaining at least weekly visits to my sons home to see our granddaughter. So this continued. The investigator told us we should hear how the insurance carrier was going to proceed in the next 4 to 6 weeks as she needed to complete her investigation and submit her report to the company's attys.
Monday morning we got a call from our ins. investigator she was beside herself. She told us that last Thurs. our sons atty contacted the ins. carrier and stated that our son and his wife were being harassed by our family and that this situation needed to end. The investigators supervisor called her and she basically told him that she did not think that was a insurance problem and the atty should be advised to tell our son and his wife that it was a police matter and had no bearing on the claim. *just for information purposes my son was not being harasssed by our family. Our daughter went to visit our granddaughter one time between end of Jan. and last Friday (she is away at college) one of our sons had gone to this sons place of work last week just to talk. Our son J was not threatened in any way by our son S. It was strictly a discussion, brother to brother. One brother asking another to help him understand what and why the other was doing this. According to our son S it the convo did get a bit heated at a couple of pts. but overall it was mainly a plea from S to J to help him understand where his head was at. The only other person who had spoken to J was one of his grandmothers, one time the day after the autopsy report came in. That's it.
The ins. investigator told us yesterday that last Thursday there was suppose to be a conference call between herself, her supervisor and my sons atty. to discuss where things were going. The investigator very much wanted to continue on with her investigation which included interviews with my son and his wife that she was trying to get scheduled. She stressed to her supervisor that we did not want the claim settled as we felt it was about greed and not any other reason. She told him she felt no decision should be made on settlement offer/or taking it to court until the investigation had been completed. Her supervisor did not agree nor disagree with her at that time, just informed her that conversation between them and my sons atty would be occurring.
On Friday the investigator learned that the discussion had taken place without her presence and that an offer of $100,000.00 was on the table. The atty for my son said he would be seeing my son and his wife that day, after business hrs for the ins. co. and he would discuss the offer with them and get back to the ins. co on Monday. The investigator once again voiced her opinion to her supervisor that she felt the way to best represent our best interest was to complete the investigation and then and only then make a decision on which way to go. Her supervisor said he thought he'd like to just go for settlement. She again disagreed. Their convo ended with her understanding that she would be present at any further dealings with my sons atty.
Monday she was advised that everything had been settled, final settlement amount was $300,000.00. When she tried to ask questions her supervisor told her the case was closed.
To say the least we are not happy. I realize that the ultimate decision on what to do rest with my ins. co. but I do feel that we were not given due process. The investigation procedure was not completed, our investigator feels that she did not represent us in the manner we deserved. Our son and his wife profited enormously by the accidental death of our grandson and may not have done so if the investigation had been allowed to be completed. Our investigator told me that she felt at best they deserved compensation for any and all medical expenses related to that day, reimbursement for time they missed at work that was unpaid (one week each) and a sum for loss but no where near $300,000.00. She said she would've had a much better feel for what her recommendation would've been had she had the opportunity to at least meet and interview my son and his wife.
Do we have any recourse? We are terribly disappointed in the outcome of this situation. In 6 short weeks this huge situation in our life was brought to an abrupt end. Even though I am assured by the investigator that a pay out to my son and his wife does not mean I have been found "guilty" or neglectful in the death of my grandson I assure you that my daughter in law is taking the settlement as validation for her belief that I was negligent as well as responsible for his death and will use this to continue to keep our granddaughter from seeing me. We already know she has told our granddaughter that she will never see me again because "I killed her baby brother." I feel as if my insurance company handed her the validation and justification for that belief.
I realize that this is a terribly emotional and traumatic situation in our family and that due to this I am not the best judge on whether or not our ins. co. operated with our best interest in mind so I am seeking some clarity from someone with expertise and the distance from the situation necessary to give me that unbiased opinion.
I look forward to hearing from the expert leaders on this board as to where I go from here, if anywhere.
Thank you and I apologize for the length but I was trying to be sure all pertinent information was presented.
In Dec of 2008 my 10 wk old grandson passed away at my home. I was watching him and my granddaughter while my son and daughter in law were at work. I had done so ever since my granddaughter was born in 2004. Autopsy results came in the end of Jan. 2009 and the death was ruled suffocation (he had gotten rolled over and suffocated) and it was also ruled accidental. Believe me this was a crushing blow to all of us.
Immediately after getting the autopsy my son and his wife removed my granddaughter from my home (she was spending the night that particular day) A bit of background, my relationship with my daughter in law could be labeled strained at best.
Very shortly after that we were contacted by our home owners ins. advising us that our son and his wife had an atty and were seeking the limits of our policy (500,000.00 was our limits).
An appt. was set up with an investigator for our carrier and my husband and I both were present and the interview was recorded. We were asked to detail the events of the day our grandson died. The investigator told us that she would continue with her investigation and let us know how things were proceeding.
Approx. 2 weeks later she called and asked if she could take statements again from my husband and I, only this time separately. I said yes. The follow up interviews occurred and during these interviews much background of the relationship between us and our son and daughter in law was asked and we answered as thoroughly as we could. We made it plain and clear that we felt this was strictly a claim being made for financial gain.
A bit of background. My husband and I had basically raised our granddaughter. In her 4 yrs of life she had been with us 5 days a week since the age of 6 weeks and on average spent 3-4 nights a week withus as well. My son and his wife did not get married until our granddaughter was 3 yrs. old. One yr. later our grandson was born. My son and his wife both have decent jobs but have the taste for the high life, just not the pocketbook to support it. We had paid for our grandsons funeral as they did not have the money to do so, even though a bank acct. was set up by my daughter in laws mother to "cover expenses". We have no idea how much was given to that fund or what they did with the money collected but it did not go toward any of the costs related to the burial of our grandson.
After the separate interviews were completed the investigator told us that she still had no gotten any paperwork from our sons atty. and that she was going to put another call in to him that day or the next. She advised us to not discuss the case with them but assured us that we could still maintain contact. I had not seen my son or granddaughter since the day the autopsy report came back but my husband was maintaining at least weekly visits to my sons home to see our granddaughter. So this continued. The investigator told us we should hear how the insurance carrier was going to proceed in the next 4 to 6 weeks as she needed to complete her investigation and submit her report to the company's attys.
Monday morning we got a call from our ins. investigator she was beside herself. She told us that last Thurs. our sons atty contacted the ins. carrier and stated that our son and his wife were being harassed by our family and that this situation needed to end. The investigators supervisor called her and she basically told him that she did not think that was a insurance problem and the atty should be advised to tell our son and his wife that it was a police matter and had no bearing on the claim. *just for information purposes my son was not being harasssed by our family. Our daughter went to visit our granddaughter one time between end of Jan. and last Friday (she is away at college) one of our sons had gone to this sons place of work last week just to talk. Our son J was not threatened in any way by our son S. It was strictly a discussion, brother to brother. One brother asking another to help him understand what and why the other was doing this. According to our son S it the convo did get a bit heated at a couple of pts. but overall it was mainly a plea from S to J to help him understand where his head was at. The only other person who had spoken to J was one of his grandmothers, one time the day after the autopsy report came in. That's it.
The ins. investigator told us yesterday that last Thursday there was suppose to be a conference call between herself, her supervisor and my sons atty. to discuss where things were going. The investigator very much wanted to continue on with her investigation which included interviews with my son and his wife that she was trying to get scheduled. She stressed to her supervisor that we did not want the claim settled as we felt it was about greed and not any other reason. She told him she felt no decision should be made on settlement offer/or taking it to court until the investigation had been completed. Her supervisor did not agree nor disagree with her at that time, just informed her that conversation between them and my sons atty would be occurring.
On Friday the investigator learned that the discussion had taken place without her presence and that an offer of $100,000.00 was on the table. The atty for my son said he would be seeing my son and his wife that day, after business hrs for the ins. co. and he would discuss the offer with them and get back to the ins. co on Monday. The investigator once again voiced her opinion to her supervisor that she felt the way to best represent our best interest was to complete the investigation and then and only then make a decision on which way to go. Her supervisor said he thought he'd like to just go for settlement. She again disagreed. Their convo ended with her understanding that she would be present at any further dealings with my sons atty.
Monday she was advised that everything had been settled, final settlement amount was $300,000.00. When she tried to ask questions her supervisor told her the case was closed.
To say the least we are not happy. I realize that the ultimate decision on what to do rest with my ins. co. but I do feel that we were not given due process. The investigation procedure was not completed, our investigator feels that she did not represent us in the manner we deserved. Our son and his wife profited enormously by the accidental death of our grandson and may not have done so if the investigation had been allowed to be completed. Our investigator told me that she felt at best they deserved compensation for any and all medical expenses related to that day, reimbursement for time they missed at work that was unpaid (one week each) and a sum for loss but no where near $300,000.00. She said she would've had a much better feel for what her recommendation would've been had she had the opportunity to at least meet and interview my son and his wife.
Do we have any recourse? We are terribly disappointed in the outcome of this situation. In 6 short weeks this huge situation in our life was brought to an abrupt end. Even though I am assured by the investigator that a pay out to my son and his wife does not mean I have been found "guilty" or neglectful in the death of my grandson I assure you that my daughter in law is taking the settlement as validation for her belief that I was negligent as well as responsible for his death and will use this to continue to keep our granddaughter from seeing me. We already know she has told our granddaughter that she will never see me again because "I killed her baby brother." I feel as if my insurance company handed her the validation and justification for that belief.
I realize that this is a terribly emotional and traumatic situation in our family and that due to this I am not the best judge on whether or not our ins. co. operated with our best interest in mind so I am seeking some clarity from someone with expertise and the distance from the situation necessary to give me that unbiased opinion.
I look forward to hearing from the expert leaders on this board as to where I go from here, if anywhere.
Thank you and I apologize for the length but I was trying to be sure all pertinent information was presented.
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:40 am Post Subject:
In Dec of 2008 my 10 wk old grandson passed away at my home. I was watching him and my granddaughter while my son and daughter in law were at work. I had done so ever since my granddaughter was born in 2004. Autopsy results came in the end of Jan. 2009 and the death was ruled suffocation (he had gotten rolled over and suffocated) and it was also ruled accidental. Believe me this was a crushing blow to all of us.
OH MY GOSH...I'm so sorry...As a 'nana' myself to three beautiful/perfect grandbabies...I cannot imagine your pain...this is a grandparents worse nightmare...and I'm am so very sorry..The investigation procedure was not completed, our investigator feels that she did not represent us in the manner we deserved. Our son and his wife profited enormously by the accidental death of our grandson and may not have done so if the investigation had been allowed to be completed. Our investigator told me that she felt at best they deserved compensation for any and all medical expenses related to that day, reimbursement for time they missed at work that was unpaid (one week each) and a sum for loss but no where near $300,000.00. She said she would've had a much better feel for what her recommendation would've been had she had the opportunity to at least meet and interview my son and his wife
. I have to disagree, I think the investigation process was completed...the only thing she was wanting to gleen from interviewing the parents frankly (most likely) was to see what kind of witnesses they would make....It's your carriers job to protect you from an ''excess'' judgement..one over 500k which would require you to pay the balance...they have to do their very best to settle within policy limits to keep you and your husband out of hot water....Frankly I'm surprised they settled for the 300k...(remember their attorney will get a minium of 100k of that)...I also disagree with the investigators evaluation of the value of this claim....and think your ins company got off cheap...put that in front of a jury and I'm betting there would've been 500k order minimally...I know it was a terrible accident...but when you are in charge of children, pretty much anything that happens you will be held liable for.You feel they have benefited monetarily...well they have but they also have lost something that cannot be replaced...Try and think about it this way...if this same thing would've happened only the baby was in the care of a non-relative baby sitter, wouldn't you be wanting them to get as much money as they could? I think you would...I know as a parent and grandparent I would..the money won't replace the child that they will grieve for the rest of their lives (you will too)...but it will ease other burdens..
Do we have any recourse?
none...I assure you that my daughter in law is taking the settlement as validation for her belief that I was negligent as well as responsible for his death
The standard releases all say that this is no admission of fault or guilt...but your carrier would not have paid a penney unless there was negligence found...now don't think for a second i think you did anything wrong that couldn't also happen to me or anyone else...just as i said before anything that happens to children in the care of an adult, will be the liability of the adult...We already know she has told our granddaughter that she will never see me again because "I killed her baby brother."
Oh dear Lord! Hopefully as their grief matures this will change...this is also YOUR son's daughter...can he not see that you all can see her?I assure you that in my opinion (based on more than 20 years in the claims biz)...the absolute best possible resolution has occured...think about it a second...if your carrier had denied the claim, it would've ended in a long drawn out very ugly open court battle, where things would've been said that can never be taken back...and more than likely ruined any chance whatsoever at regaining a relationship with your son's family...
If I were in your place I would thank the Good Lord above that this part of it is over and as quickly as it was....honestly...I think your carrier did a stellar job of resolving this quickly, accruately and with as little damage to your family as possible, while still protecting you and your husbands assets..
Is there anything that you can do...family therapy maybe to try and get this relationship back on track? What about your other kids? are they allowed access?
Who is watching grand daughter now while mom and dad work?
I sincerely, hope that you are allowed access to your grand daughter again, you and your family are in my prayers and will be in my thoughts for years to come...
Please let us know if we can be of any additional assistance, or if you have any questions...
(ps..our grand kids call their grandpa ''poppy'' :wink: )
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:47 am Post Subject:
Well, I think that since the insurance company has settled the claim already there isn't much to be done. It seems that wanted to get rid of this mess at the earliest available opportunity & so they did. Possibly they have considered that they have considered $300,000.00 as a good bargain and therefore have settled. Anyway, the experts would comment too so don't lose hope.
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 07:39 pm Post Subject:
Lori,
I want to thank you for taking the time to give me the straight up on our situation. As I said in my first post I wanted to hear from someone who was not knee deep in the situation and could give me a strictly unbiased opinion. I feel you were able to do just that and I thank you.
I had one of those Aha moments that Oprah is always talking about when reading your reply. It's so easy when you're reeling from such devastation to not see things clearly. I definitely got caught up in letting my feelings about my daughter in law color my perceptions about the situation and also my own feelings of guilt because I failed to protect my grandson from harm when he was in my care. I know that outside of carrying him in my arms all day that there was nothing I could've done differently and why things went so terribly wrong that day only God knows.
What's truly important now is that we adults find a way to put this behind us enough to stop anymore emotional trauma to our 4 yr. old daughter/granddaughter. Bottom line, that's where my focus needs to be.
Again, thank you for your honesty and for your kindness.
~Poppy
BTW...to our grandchildren we are Nana & Papa :)
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 08:08 pm Post Subject:
These types of situations are always difficult for everyone involved, even adjusters and their supervisors. As insurance professionals, we have to separate ourselves from the emotional portion of the claim. Anytime a child is involved, there is normally an attempt to settle a claim, and from what I’ve seen even when there does not appear to be liability. The death of a child put in front of a jury is an attorney’s best case (not meant to sound cold), regardless of the circumstances, and is the reason a settlement is attempted as Lori stated perfectly.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:55 am Post Subject:
I had one of those Aha moments that Oprah is always talking about when reading your reply
Oh Poppy, I'm so glad I could help in any way with this terrible situation...I could've done differently and why things went so terribly wrong that day only God knows.
No you could not have done anything..and you did absolutely NOTHING wrong..for some reason that we cannot understand this happened...The Good Lord must think you are a terrifically strong woman to bear this burden...please do your best to not let 'guilt' in...everyone knows how much you loved that sweet baby, and would've protected that boy with your life..What's truly important now is that we adults find a way to put this behind us enough to stop anymore emotional trauma to our 4 yr. old daughter/granddaughter. Bottom line, that's where my focus needs to be
You are absolutely right...and I truly hope and pray that this relationship will mend soon...the poor little girl needs you now more than ever...Your daughter in law is in my prayers as well that her heart will soften and she will see this clearer where you are concerned...If you want you can send me a 'pm' (private message) if you need another 'nana' to talk to...I'll always be here for you...your tragedy has deeply touched my heart..
BTW...to our grandchildren we are Nana & Papa
We are as well..or we started that way our first grand child (will be three in May)...couldn't say 'nana' very well so it turned into "Nammy" which it remans now for the two that can talk...and assume the youngest (6months) will likewise follow..so we are "Nammy and Poppy" :wink:Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:55 am Post Subject:
What's truly important now is that we adults find a way to put this behind us enough to stop anymore emotional trauma to our 4 yr. old daughter/granddaughter.
What is lost is lost Poppy, your grandson, your money, your peace of mind. But the good thing here is that the bad things have at least come to a halt from where you can change course to make things better. You still have your grand daughter who you can focus on. You also need to give yourself and your husband more time to recover from this trauma. Spend some time with yourself and focus on better living
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