by Guest » Mon Sep 14, 2009 09:18 pm
My grandmother purchased a policy on me which is paid in full. She died last year. I received a copy of the policy & was shocked, when I found my mother listed as the beneficerary and my step father, "who also was the agent who sold her the policy years ago" listed as the owner. The policy was changed shortly after she passed away. I do not have a good relationship with either. Is this legal? I thought that after she passed I as the insured would have became the owner.
Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:08 pm Post Subject:
The Premium is payed in full. I'm awaiting papers from the life insurance company, to find out how it was changed. It will take 3-4 weeks before they arrive.
Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:42 pm Post Subject:
Please let us know how it turns out.
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 01:05 am Post Subject:
Definately will do!
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 07:28 pm Post Subject: You will never believe!
My husband stepfather aka the insurance agent had forged my husbands name last year making himself the new owner. Want be hard to prove b/c he also signed as the witnessing agent. The charge as of now is Theft by Fraud. He should be arrested this week.
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 07:40 pm Post Subject:
One of the two happened either the policy was always in my husbands name and his grandmother just paid the policy of two she had directed that upon death the he would become the owner. Either way his name was forged by his stepfather making himself the new owner. I can't believe the insurance company even accepted the change of ownership with no social security numbers listed, no notary and the witnessing insurance agent signing his own name making himself the new owner.
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 03:13 am Post Subject:
Wow, interesting post! :shock: :evil:
Not to throw step-daddy under a bus or anything, but what a slimeball. While it certainly wouldn't have been illegal to be the owner of the policy, it was pretty obvious by his actions that this was something that he wanted hidden from mom. Not the purchase of the policy, but the "inner-workings" of the policy language that allows transfer of policy ownership and the steps required to accomplish the transfer. The original ownership of the policy comes into mind, too.
I agree absolutely with the OPs latest comment about the lack of information required to effect the transfer and subsequent actions. I gotta hunch that the paperwork on this was done a looong time ago when privacy laws, notice of information practice requirements and all that stuff didn't exist. That truly sucks, if you'll excuse my type-age.
It made me smile when I read that he got, or hopefully will be getting busted. Gooooooood. :D I wonder how many others he did a number on?
The information you've gotten in the thread is good info. Please let us know how this bad B-movie progresses.
InsTeacher 8)
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 05:52 am Post Subject:
On one hand your husband should inform the carrier and ask for an investigation. On the other hand, he might also register a complaint with the State DoI. Once you obtain the police report things would be easier for you.
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 04:40 am Post Subject:
To clarify a few points here...
No after the passing of an owner ownership does not have to pass to the insured, the original owner can name a secondary owner who would take ownership at that time. If the policy is paid up as in your case, the new owner would not need to pay premiums but would have access to the cash values in the account.
No there is no ethics violation for an agent to have ownership or be named beneficiary. Anyone can be named beneficiary to a policy. At issue an indurable interest must be proven, but after issue beneficiaries can be changed w/o indurable interest being required.
Your particual situation has a unique wrinkle. You have a different insured, different owner, and different beneficiary. This means your policy trips what's known as a goodman triangle and if you were to die the death benefit paid would no longer be tax free--mom would owe taxed on all of it.
It's not uncommon to see secondary beneficiaries in a case like yours, and if your stepfather were to die ownership would likely pass to you. There is no need for a will to make any of this happen. In fact even if one did exist leaving all assets to someone else, ownership of this policy would have most likely passed to him in this case. This provision is typical on juvenile life insurance to ensure children insureds do not end up with access to the cash values until the owner has decided he/she wants the insured to even if the original owner dies.
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 04:41 am Post Subject:
post deleted as duplicate
-Moderator
Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 06:53 am Post Subject:
First of all my Husband after review was the orginal owner his grandmother had only applied for the policy when he was a child and made the premiums. Passing of the ownership only occured when his stepfather forged his name last year. My husband was 38 at the time. After a complete set of documents is acquired, he will be arrested. When he is arrested which will be very soon "according to the detective working the case," I will let everyone know exactly what he is being charged with. As of now the charge is theft by fraud. I do not know if the policy has cash value it is a 10 year pay with an accident rider. Either way it doesn't matter never planned on cashing policy out. Thanks for all the advice, this has been a GREAT resource center. Will keep everyone updated.
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