by Guest » Tue Jan 11, 2011 06:09 pm
I'm looking for some term life insurance that builds cash value. Can someone please help me? I know that Primerica and Northern Mutual are the best. But that's all that I know...Thanks!
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 08:40 pm Post Subject:
Amen
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 06:48 pm Post Subject:
My only premise was "It is possible to buy a term policy that builds cash value." With that being my premise, all that is needed is one type, thus what other types do or don't do isn't relevant.
Who said anything about failing to disclose the nature of anything. If someone asks if it is possible to build cash surrender value with term, the answer is "yes". Of course, the conversation needs to continue from there. Again, this was simply sticking with the point that the product exists and has nothing to do with its appropriateness.
Max, You didn't get the whole quote in its proper context. You said that ROP was the only type of term with a cash surrender value. All that my comment meant was that I have no reason to think that you are wrong, but I don't have the knowledge to say that you are correct. I'm sure not arguing against what you said because you are probably correct. If someone asked me if you were correct, I would have to say, "I don't know."
When I said that I can't admit that you are correct, it was/is an admission of my lack of knowledge. You said that ROP is the only type of term that has a cash surrender value. I'm admitting that I don't know if you are correct or not. I don't have any reason to doubt you.
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 09:21 pm Post Subject:
Ok, you've gotten my attention again.
"It is possible to buy a term policy that builds cash value."
No, you are wrong!! It is possible to buy a term insurance policy that returns all or a portion of your premiums at some point. Nothing whatsoever "builds up" within the policy - ever.
If you ever sell a term life insurance policy and represent that a cash value is built up/earned/generated or accumulated via the policy's earning potential or income generation provision, you are a liar.
If someone asks if it is possible to build cash surrender value with term, the answer is "yes".
No, you are wrong again. If someone asks you if it is ever possible to get their premiums back from a term policy (provided certain requirements are met) the answer is "yes".
All that my comment meant was that I have no reason to think that you are wrong, but I don't have the knowledge to say that you are correct.
This ranks right up there with the most absurd statements I've heard licensed insurance producers make. And because my investigations have resulted in the termination of numerous insurance careers, I've heard some pretty stupid things. If you don't have the knowledge to know right from wrong, you have a serious problem and do not belong in the insurance industry until you have that education.
I'm sure not arguing against what you said because you are probably correct.
That was certainly one of the smarter things you've said. Max is correct, and since you openly admit you do not have the insurance education to dispute his statement, I suggest you start studying.
You said that ROP is the only type of term that has a cash surrender value.
Please remember that ROP stands for "Return Of Premium" not "term that generates a cash value." I'll admit that the ROP illustrations I've seen show "Cash Value" at the top of the ROP column. In this regard the words cash value do not clearly represent the column and, in my professional opinion, should not be used.
In a prior post you mentioned that you've sold ROP term. Please give me the name of that company so that I can contact their compliance department. If a producer is using their illustraions to sell "cash value term" they need to know about it. Furthermore, if one of their producers is selling "cash value term" and openly admits (in writing) they lack the knowledge to determine right from wrong in the sale of life insurance, they need to know about it.
I do not anticipate the utterly idiotic response now being generated in the space between your ears but, know it will come. Before hitting that Quick Reply button down at the bottom of your screen, go to Google and type in the words "Life Insurance Fraud Investigators." Here you'll find me at the very top of the page. I got this position because I am the best at what I do. When I represent to Judges, Attorney Generals, Lawyers, Doctors, and those in various regulatory agencies there is no such thing as cash value-earning life insurance (excepting the ROP plan) they believe me. I hope that you will too.
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 01:31 am Post Subject:
What is your definition of "builds up"? If that has some standard insurance definition that must be used, I don't know it.
Like it or not, the policy has a cash surrender value. It starts at $0, and gradually builds over time. If that isn't building cash value, I'm not sure what is. Nobody is implying that the cash surrender value will ever be above the premiums. This is also true for lots of UL policies, but we still talk about them building cash value. It sure sounds like you are trying to make a semantic argument.
I've certainly never said anything about a policy's earning potential or income generating potential. The only thing that I've said is that there is a value for which a person can surrender their policy.
Like all agents, I don't know everything. However, I know what I don't know. Yet, somehow you think that it's absurd for me to admit that there might be some insurance policy that exists that I don't know about. Is there a reason why an insurance policy couldn't design a term policy that isn't ROP that has some cash surrender value? It sounds possible to me, yet I don't know if it exists. Thus, I don't know if Max is correct or not.
In my professional opinion, the term "cash value" indicates the amount of money that one would receive if they surrender their policy. That's what is meant by the term on the ROP illustrations. That is what is meant by the term on WL illustrations. The states in which these policies are sold are all fine with that term. I'm curious. Why do you disagree with me, the insurance companies, and the states?
Don't try twisting what I have said. I don't like ROP. I've sold one policy because my client insisted on it. I failed in talking her out of it. I showed how bad the cash surrender value was every year and that it could only make sense if she did keep it for the entire time.
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 01:34 am Post Subject:
By the way, my definition of "build" is to grow over time. If life insurance builds cash surrender value, it means that the cash surrender value grows over time.
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 09:51 am Post Subject:
Try BORROWING from a term policy with a ROP rider or provision. Then you'll discover the definition of "builds up" and the realization that TERM INSURANCE = NO CASH VALUE.
You can borrow from WHOLE LIFE, UNIVERSAL LIFE, any of the variations thereof, and the VARIABLE contracts. But not from TERM.
And in case you wanted to argue that point in relation to a TERMINAL ILLNESS RIDER, invoking a terminal illness rider in a term policy is not BORROWING any cash value. It is creating a lien against the DEATH BENEFIT. Yes, it is treated as a policy loan, and bears interest, but it is an advance on the death benefit. Most newer Cash Value policies have the same provision/rider.
As previously stated (a textbook definition you choose to ignore), cash value is truly known as INSIDE BUILD UP -- something WITHIN the structure of the contract. ROP term's NONFORFEITURE VALUE is extraneous to the contract -- it will be paid in addition to the death benefit or returned to the owner according to the provisions in the contract at cancellation or termination. You won't find that in any CASH VALUE contract except UL Option II (or the handful of policies that offer the Option III ROP provision).
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 05:03 pm Post Subject:
That is some strawman that you are deciding to use. The fact that one can borrow money from a permanent policy is irrelevant to the question of whether a term policy can have a cash surrender value.
Put up strawmen until you are blue in the face. Can a term policy be purchased that can be surrendered for cash (ie have a cash surrender value)? Yes.
I keep trying to tell you to get your mind out of the textbook. If ROP policies have a column that says "cash (surrender) value" and the states are fine with this, "INSIDE BUILDUP" is not the only definition of cash value. The states make the laws and not the text book.
Alternatively, Max is correct and every state is wrong as are all of the companies that sell ROP term.
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:19 pm Post Subject:
It's a nonforfeiture value. If you and the insurance companies want to refer to it as CASH VALUE, fine. We've already conceded that minor point.
But when the typical person is talking about CASH VALUE INSURANCE, they are not thinking about ROP term. When the OP said, "I'm looking for some term life insurance that builds cash value," I'm 99% sure ROP term was NOT the kind of product that was on his mind. Nor was deposit term. We'll probably never know, but I'm reasonably certain he meant the same crap about cash value that he heard from a WL/UL sales agent -- "This policy builds cash value that you can use for retirement or to send your kids to college."
ROP term's cash value makes no such promises or statements. You either hold the policy to the end of the term or you lose most of your premiums, especially the 30%-100% EXTRA you paid for the privilege.
So go right ahead and sell all the CASH VALUE TERM you want and be sure that you don't forget to pay your E&O premiums.
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 05:23 pm Post Subject:
Thanks for the help. Return of premiums term is what I wanted.
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 09:54 pm Post Subject:
Wonderful! You'll probably do better to put the extra premium into some type of savings or investment vehicle rather than into an ROP term policy. Very poor rate of return and if you fail to keep the ROP term policy at least 80% of the term you'll lose the majority of the premium you put into it. You won't get 100% unless you keep the policy to the end of the term.
ROP term is NOT like cash value insurance. You cannot borrow any of the accumulation, you can only get some/all of it by holding the term policy well beyond 50% of the term. Be sure to read the contract -- or better yet, have the agent show you EXACTLY what the return percentages are for every year of the policy prior to filing the application.
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