by Guest » Sun Jul 14, 2013 09:15 pm
I have a big policy with Lafayette Life, $450 permanent premium, $150
convertible term, $900 PUA can go up to $1400 PUA before MEC. I am only
6 months into it, it will come to fruition in about another 9 months when I pay off my first car balance with it freeing up $400 a month cash flow for more investments but of course repayment of that policy loan must be made up in there too.
I have another for my wife, Mass Mutual. It starts at 100% term and each payment converts that amount of term to permanent arriving at 100% permanent in 10 years. This feature is called LSIR. This also has their ALIR rider ( instead of PUA) that I elect to fund $2k up front first year cash deposit and then every year after to be paid at my schedule. I like this policy but I think this feature LSIR has higher fees and expenses but it also eliminates term insurance expenditure. I got this because it is funded by two small pensions and begins with high initial death benefit while avoiding term insurance expenditure, and is not intended to use for banking,
but using the ALIR annual $2k cash addition to get the poilicy up to self sufficiency several years early becasue my pensions funding it would stop on my death.
I am going to do a third policy, or second on my life, straight permanent, in about a year after some priorities are cought up. This will be with Guardian.
Just giving some backround that I know a little about this.
My question is for my daughter. She wants to start the banking concept, at age 26 and good combined income with her husband and available discretionary cash flow, She will want low term cost, highest cash value early, about $400 a month total premium. She may want the MassM ALIR feature that allows an
up front cash funding.
What is the best company for her to look at, for the purpose of a nominal permanent policy premium, the minimum term cost, and to maximize the cash value growth early? For example, I found out accidentally that MassM has this ALIR rider where cash value can be funded in lump sum up front and then flexibly each year after. It is hard to find what features each company provides. And I found out accidentally that
Lafayette is a top company out there that won't appear in routine internet
research.
Are there any other advice of good companies and good policy features. Are the top 3 in size necessarity the best?
If I don't see any more intormation we will probably do the MassM to get the ALIR feature. I am not sure if ALIR and PUA riders can combine in same policy.
convertible term, $900 PUA can go up to $1400 PUA before MEC. I am only
6 months into it, it will come to fruition in about another 9 months when I pay off my first car balance with it freeing up $400 a month cash flow for more investments but of course repayment of that policy loan must be made up in there too.
I have another for my wife, Mass Mutual. It starts at 100% term and each payment converts that amount of term to permanent arriving at 100% permanent in 10 years. This feature is called LSIR. This also has their ALIR rider ( instead of PUA) that I elect to fund $2k up front first year cash deposit and then every year after to be paid at my schedule. I like this policy but I think this feature LSIR has higher fees and expenses but it also eliminates term insurance expenditure. I got this because it is funded by two small pensions and begins with high initial death benefit while avoiding term insurance expenditure, and is not intended to use for banking,
but using the ALIR annual $2k cash addition to get the poilicy up to self sufficiency several years early becasue my pensions funding it would stop on my death.
I am going to do a third policy, or second on my life, straight permanent, in about a year after some priorities are cought up. This will be with Guardian.
Just giving some backround that I know a little about this.
My question is for my daughter. She wants to start the banking concept, at age 26 and good combined income with her husband and available discretionary cash flow, She will want low term cost, highest cash value early, about $400 a month total premium. She may want the MassM ALIR feature that allows an
up front cash funding.
What is the best company for her to look at, for the purpose of a nominal permanent policy premium, the minimum term cost, and to maximize the cash value growth early? For example, I found out accidentally that MassM has this ALIR rider where cash value can be funded in lump sum up front and then flexibly each year after. It is hard to find what features each company provides. And I found out accidentally that
Lafayette is a top company out there that won't appear in routine internet
research.
Are there any other advice of good companies and good policy features. Are the top 3 in size necessarity the best?
If I don't see any more intormation we will probably do the MassM to get the ALIR feature. I am not sure if ALIR and PUA riders can combine in same policy.
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 02:42 pm Post Subject:
And I found out accidentally that Lafayette is a top company out there that won't appear in routine internet research.
Baloney. This company is easily found.Are there any other advice of good companies and good policy features. Are the top 3 in size necessarity the best?
The "best" insurance company is the one that pays a claim when submitted.As for the "infintie banking" scams . . . don't expect Congress to ignore this "loophole" in the Internal Revenue Code for too much longer. When they get around to disallowing cash value loans on a "tax-free" basis to pay for Obamacare and their other fiscal foul ups, you will be stuck with high cost policies that won't provide the "benefit" you think you have today.
Life insurance was never intended to be a revolving door into the cash value. Congress allowed the access to cash value in case there was a cash emergency in the economy, not to enable you to take a cruise or buy a new car.
Like Coverdell savings programs, and HSAs to pay for medical expenses, my guess is that Congress is eventually going to disallow free access to life insurance cash values for "nonqualified" uses. The insurance companies will offer absolutely no protest to this. Why not? Because it means they will have near total control over those cash values -- the ability to play with the money, maximizing their returns and not have to worry about liquidating assets when too many people want to take a "free" loan, since most loans will not be "free" and most people will choose not to take them, or will choose to terminated their policies to obtain the cash value. Either way, the insurance company is relieved of certain burdens.
So go ahead and buy a hundred more whole life policies if you want to. Just start paying attention to what the politicians in Washington DC are talking about when they mention the word "revenue" -- because they don't have enough revenue to satisfy their craving for spending a trillion dollars more than they have in their pockets.
Thanks only to the "sequester" due to the Congressional impasse on the budget, our 2013 fiscal year (ending Sept 30) deficit is finally less than a trillion. But it won't be eliminated in the next two months.
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:41 pm Post Subject:
Ok thanks for the reply. Of course congress can change laws
and as usual diversification is necessary in all things. Immediately they are talking about scalping 401k and IRA like in Cyprus.
Once my two cars are paid for I don't expect to use my policies for banking. I would convert my term to permanent and reduce my PUA, maybe three years if I stay on schedule.
My other primary purpose for cash value is to make the policies self sufficient sooner and that is the obvious satutory use of PUA, and to accumulate out more dividend. Now just getting started, Nothing I would have in there would be "stuck" and would be there to become self sufficient sooner.
I hope that in 2-3 years my next venture may be to fund an annuity and that could be helped out of cash value.
So I will only need two years to fulfill my banking purposes and maybe three to get the initial cash value where I want it, I hope they dont change laws sooner.
I don't beleive in putting much in qualified plans or taxable, registered, and titled property but I do put in 401k up to the company match. In general I want off the
grid and out of the matrix as much as possible.
I just got a Lafayette annual report, 1st year premiums paid have exploded, so this is in the fad stage and that is something to be aware of those may not last too long before attracting congress attention.
I also suspect this may be where elite keep their money and if that is the case it could be a protected asset in the DC den of sorcerors as opposed to retail 401k, IRA availabe to congress to defraud.
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:53 pm Post Subject:
this may be where elite keep their money
Hardly. The "elite" -- as you think of them -- keep their money in the stock market, where they pay capital gains tax, not income tax. Unlike you, they have no fear of taxes, understanding them to be the price of living in a free democracy. Albeit one that has lost all concept of fiscal restraint.Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:12 pm Post Subject:
In general, I have been around a long time.
Infinite banking is no scam.
It is taxed money, and there is no loophole, the congress has no basis to tax or penalize taxed money, that is one beauty of it, to be all the way out of their matrix. I am not saying the congress is not criminal and will not do illegal things.
401k/IRA is the scam
I would still like to know if there are any special good companies out there that I don't know about not being convinced biggest is the best, and do these companies have unique offerings as I learned about the MassM ALIR up front funded version of PUA.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:29 am Post Subject:
the congress has no basis to tax or penalize taxed money
Really? Then you haven't been around long enough to have had to pay income taxes on your Social Security money. That, friend, is money already taxed once. Same as loan repayments to a 401(k) account is made with after tax money which is taxed again on withdrawal. That's not a scam, it's simply the rules that apply to 401(k)/403(b) accounts.There is absolutely nothing in the way of Congress taxing life insurance loans if they decide to do that. Congress has the power to redefine life insurance any way it chooses, and if they want to put it into a parallel category right alongside 401(k) plans, you have very little say in the matter. As Congress begins to reconcile the fiscal mess the unfunded liabilities Obamacare, Social Security, and Medicare are creating, and their abject reluctance to increase income taxes and FICA contributions, or decrease benefits and other entitlements, they are instead looking at every conceivable way to generate revenue.
How did tanning parlors end up with a 10% excise tax on the cost of a tanning session? One way to pay for Obamacare. How did the Schedule A tax deduction AGI threshold for medical insurance premiums and unreimbursed expenses drift upward by 33.33%, from 7.5% to 10%, beginning with Tax Year 2014? To pay for Obamacare.
Do you really want your insurance company to be regulated by the federal government instead of the state, as most insurance companies are asking for? What is the next step for Congress and the Federal Insurance Office, but to take that oversight away from the states. Premium taxes of 1% to 2%? How about 5% to 10%. Your whole life contract is built on a 1% or 2% premium tax. The insurance company is powerless to raise your premium to account for higher taxes, so they will have to take it out of reserves. Your precious dividends will thin and could eventually evaporate.
Did you ever stop to wonder why it is that we have Modified Endowment Contracts today? It is precisely because Congress figured out that people were putting a ton of money into life insurance policies and immediately taking the money out, creating phantom cash value, and deducting the phantom interest on those loans.
I don't know anything about the Mass Mutual "ALIR" that allows one to fund paid up additions "up front." It makes little sense, other than one is deliberately overfunding their policy, but not to the MEC level.
Here's the problem with counting on dividends to create paid-up additions: dividends are not guaranteed. If something happens to an insurance company's reserve account (such as Congress or the states changing reserve requirements which force money into low-paying securities, as is happening with Universal Life and Annuities with "guaranteed iincome" riders), the profits won't materialize to provide the dividends policyowners may have come to expect as a given.
Your quest for smaller companies is a dangerous course. What draws money to those companies is high interest rates or excessive "dividends". Eventually, like a Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme, those high returns cannot be sustained, and when they fall off severely, people begin the search for the next best interest rate or "dividends" and start making 1035 Exchanges.
When the insurance company cash flow starts to decline, a whole new downward spiral begins, that can gather momentum very quickly and lead to insolvency. That's one of the worst things that can happen to an insurance company and its policyowners. The stinkiest contracts may not be palatable to stronger insurance companies willing to take over a block of business from another company on the outs, and if that hapens, people will be in line to lose money when their state guarantee association pays cash value recoveries to the statutory limit. It can take years, if ever, for company assets to be liquidated to provide addition payments from the "estate" of the dead insurance company.
Just ask some of those policyholders from the Executive Life fiasco who still have not recovered 100% of their losses.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 01:28 am Post Subject:
I am planning on 3 different insurance companies for diversification. Lafayette, MassM, Guardian.
The 401k is with too big to jail JPMorgan.
I am collecting gold and silver coins, what else would I do?
I have in mind to acquire some alternate currencies, swiss
and chinese?
I have a 3rd excellent 50k miles 26 year old car for backup, it would show almost no confiscatable value on govt papers while it is priceless to me, paid for and no insurance waste except statue liabiity.
What else can I do. I know many of these govt fraud topics you are referring to.
My daughter is worried about an income distruption, job change, and making the premium payments. I am suggesting the ALIR at MassM is a way to start with paid up additions from the start ,for that piece of mind. It would be valuable to me if ALIR and PUA could be combined, I don't know yet.
I understand ALIR money is in there early and not paid a dividend for the full year
I have an offshore crib but no income if I got there, only what I would take with me. I have to make it 7 more years to SS which I doubt I get paid or I get paid with worthless currency.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 04:24 am Post Subject:
diversification.
LOL! You'll have three life insurance policies. That's not diversification that's just three life insurance policies.I have in mind to acquire some alternate currencies, swiss and chinese?
In your 401(k)? Ever bothered to read the Internal Revenue Code on that topic? And when the Chinese government stops the artificial support for the low yuan, your Chinese money will deflate overnight. That sounds like a real winner to me. Very high up on the diversification scale -- maybe you can buy a life insurance policy from a Chinese insurance company.I am suggesting the ALIR at MassM
Like I said, I have no idea what that is or how it works, but if your daughter is worried about paying life insurance premiums, she probably doesn't need life insurance as a savings account gimmick.I am collecting gold and silver coins, what else would I do?
Well, in the past 18-24 months, you've only lost about 30% on that. Congratulations! I hear hoarding nickels is the best thing going . . . double your money with every $2 roll you get from the bank. Sure beats gold and silver, don't you think?I have an offshore crib but no income if I got there, only what I would take with me. I have to make it 7 more years to SS which I doubt I get paid or I get paid with worthless currency.
So what exactly is it that causes you to want to hide from the government?Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 07:01 pm Post Subject:
Max,
To me, it sounds as though guest-tim has spent a great deal of time fine-tuning his plan. In your experience, how many life insurance policy owners actually develop a plan – and then stick with it?
Here’s something I don’t think you considered:
Remember the Young case in Turlock, CA? Where that 19 year old kid saw in a dream that he would die in December of his 25th year? That next year, when he was 20, he began buying those big policies – based on his dream?
Remember that he bought policies for his crack-addict biological mother, deadbeat dad, his girlfriend’s mom and had a trust put in place for his girlfriend’s son? When I interviewed them, they told me how they though he was crazy. They could not understand why he’d spend so much money on life insurance at his age. Four years later, in May of his 25th year, he was diagnosed with malignant thymoma and died painfully the following December. That young man, Chris, also had a plan and, by God, he stuck to it to the very end.
I've read through the posts a couple of times and I cannot find the part where guest-tim states that he'd like the benefit (face value) of any the life insurance policies paid to a beneficiary when he dies. Because you have no idea when his heart will stop beating, you simply cannot, even with your experience, make a determination as to whether or not his plan will work. If, for example, he dies in the next 10-15 years, his plan will probably work perfectly.
Those of us (yourself included) who participated in the investigation of literally thousands of Life Insurance Fraud cases have seen very dramatic changes in the industry, and not all of those have been good. I’m proud that some of those dramatic changes were the direct result of our investigations and subsequent law suits.
Face it; we really have no idea what the IRS, Congress, Senate, House of Representatives or anyone else, for that matter, is going to do tomorrow – much less ten years from now. If the national debt never increases, interest rates increase, the housing market returns to its 2006 level, immigration and welfare reform are miraculously settled and Obamacare is accepted by the Republicans as the best thing since sliced bread, we’ll all be better off.
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:15 pm Post Subject:
Well my plan is varied. I have alot of time pressure because I only expect to work for 5-7 years. My health is not that good (pain) but my relatives lived very old so I don't expect to die. My plan is to put as much money aside as possible for emergency and personal financing to never pay interest again and to the extent possible never pay auto insurance waste. Part of my plan is to favor tax free property such as WL. I had BK, divorce, dissability, job loss, remarriage, and now have high interest rates. My plan is to have a good death benefit for my wife and children, I think I need 1M and have 500k now. If the death benefit is not used to my demise, my plan is to use the WL policies for income later. My plan is to be liquid and not attached to property, in my estimation of a collapsing society and economy, it is a principal of mine that transient people have no use for stuff. I do not want contracts and stuff that cannot be disposed of in a no big market. If SHTF and I head overseas I do not want to pay for storage for example, I do not want a mortgage trap or the property tax enslavement. Citizens can never own property only rent ( property tax).
I may take a mortgage in one year because of the tax frauds but I not want one. I am not sure that that mortgage interest will help enough after property tax relative to standard deduction, to weigh the risks of entrapment. One of my prinicpals is never contract with "them".
If SHTF which it is, just not televised yet, I have a plan to get to an offshore crib and need liquidity to live a few years.
So I am the owner of my wife's policy, my plan for that, is to be her income and liquidy much later instead of annuity, her daughter and my step is the beneficiary. I have the big policy devided between my wife and 3 children which is not enough and need another on my life to maximize death benefit for wife and 2 youngest.
I don't beleive in stocks and definitely not bonds, so the 401k is limited to stocks
as opposed to bonds. I do not do money market which is derivates of mortgages and Bernanke already said they will not defend money market NAV next time.
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:33 pm Post Subject:
I have no idea where you are coming from with these type of stamements and insults.
You obviously have decided not answer any question constructively and obviously hate WL, as does Suzy Orman and Dave Ramsey who I don't listen to much.
The currency is destroyed, food and gasoline surging, I have a place overseas where I can sustain 10 years or so, literally $2000 a year cost of living is a backup plan if and when this piece goes down which is obvious accelerating, for example the latest employment report is 75% new jobs are part time min wage(obamacare). My company industry and income would depend on a functioning society, not by the number of food stamps exceeding the number employed. My company makes products that ONLY go to functionally employed people. In fact there almost no manufacturing left in the country in my field, all destroyed, my age and health my leave me unemployable if the next disaster takes this company/factory down whch is only a matter of time on their track record of fraud and incompetence and failure.
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