by missjaxon » Thu Nov 19, 2009 05:09 am
I have a Inland Marine policy on my diamond wedding set,well it has dissapeared,I called the insurance and they want to give me a replacement value of 6,700..My apprasial is 10,100..I have had this for 15 years..To me this is unacceptable..I did the math and by my calculations ive paid more then 60,000..What are my legal options..Im not asking for more just what i deserve..It is irreplaceable..Help!
Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 07:38 am Post Subject:
Well Leah, this one seems quite an interesting piece of information. I'm sure you could share the nature and benefits of such a policy with us. Did you need to renew this marine policy every year for all these 15 years? Also, I'm sure you could ask for an explanation regarding how they've arrived at this 6700 offer.
Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 03:20 pm Post Subject:
there perfered vendor was the one that arrived at the 6,700..replacement value..Our jewlery maker said we should have updated every 7 years,who by the way our insirance agent failed to tell us that..We do not plan on cashing the check. We also told the vendor to send the check directly to our jewlerler,but sent it to us..We do not want the cash...I want a new ring,and with things sooo expensive,my ring could never even come close to 6,700.my question is that if it is Scheduled Marine Policy why is the replacement valuse so low..Thanks..Leah
Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 03:26 pm Post Subject:
The nature of the policy is a Schedule Marine Policy,and it should be cash value.
Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 03:43 am Post Subject:
I've run into this questions many, many times. Inland Marine contracts, usually called "floaters" or "schedules" are commonly misunderstood by insured and agents. Let me 'splain Lucy...and this could take a while!
First of all, there's a difference between a "schedule IM floater" and an "agreed value" policy. HUGE difference.
You insured the ring for $10,000 under an IM contract. You were under the impression that if there was a total loss of the ring that you would receive the scheduled amount of $10,000. This is the impression that I got from your post.
I'm not quite sure what this means:
I did the math and by my calculations ive paid more then 60,000
You've paid more than $60,000 (?) for what? I can't figure out where a $60k figure comes into play. Are you saying the replacement cost is $60k? That doesn't sound right...there's no way that a diamond ring appraised 15 years ago for $10,100 would cost $60k today. Diamond prices are actually going DOWN due to the discovery of additional diamond mines. Additionally, DeBeers is beginning to lose it's cartel and monopoly on the diamond industry that they're pretty much held for years. Keep in mind that the value/prices of diamonds have been artificially inflated for decades. Back to the point.
Just because the ring was scheduled for $10k doesn't mean that you will receive the full amount in the event of a loss. Here's how those policies work: there's language within the policy (take it out and read it the policy, you'll find this) that states that the insurer's liability is "limited to the cost to repair, replace or cash out" and the decision as to which is chosen is always up to the discretion of the insurer. The best way an agent can explain the coverage under these contracts is to say something like "if there's a total loss to this ring, you'll get paid the amount it actually costs to replace the ring or $10,000, whichever is less." So, if it costs $12k to replace, you'll get paid $10k. If it costs $6700 to replace, you'll get $6700.
If they have determined that the ring can be replaced at "like kind and quality" standards for $6,700, that's all they have to pay. Usually, insurers use outside companies that specialize in working with insurance companies and give them great prices on personal property items claimed on insurance losses. One of the bigger replacement companies is Robert Waxman out of Denver. They deal in huge volumes and can easily replace most stuff claimed. Jewelry is one of their specialties.
I was doing this stuff when I was playing with claims. I learned that there's a ton of mark-up in jewelry. As well, and this is hard to swallow for some people, there are many jewelers that do their own appraisals and have a tendency to inflate them to impress their customers. This also impresses the newly-engaged woman. She sees an appraisal on an engagement ring for $12,000 and thinks that the boyfriend spent that much on the ring. Not likely at all, but SHE doesn't know that. My wife's ring, 22 years ago, was appraised at $8400. Sounds good, huh? I paid $2500 for it. I knew the jeweler. The insurance company wanted a retail appraisal. I know the ropes and knew that there was NO WAY that I would get $8400 in the event of a loss. The carrier would only pay ME what it would actually cost to REPLACE the ring...which was $2500. So, I made my jeweler give me an appraisal for what it would actually cost me to replace, not some inflated retail "make it look good" kind of insurance value. :shock: :!:
So, here's what I would do if I were you. I would contact the insurer and specifically ask how they determined the value of the ring they are willing to pay you. Next, assuming they give you the information, ask them if they will give you their contact information at the source of the value they quoted. This will likely be someone who they've worked with for some time. If you can get them to cough up this information, you can normally contact the replacement cost company and buy from them if you can provide them your claim number, etc. This way, you should be able to replace the ring. You will probably even be able to pick out one you like.
Some companies won't play this game, so be ready for that.
By the way everyone, let me apologize right now for the babbling, I'm almost done...
Finally, if this doesn't work, contact one of the big locally-owned jewelers in your area and let 'em know what's up and see what they can do for you. In a weird way, the timing of the loss is good- the economy is killing the diamond trade in the U.S. and livin' is easy for buyers of larger stones. For $6700 you can get a rock the size of Gibraltar these days! :D
If you can give me the specs on the stone(s) and settings, I can easily find out what you can do with your settlement $$. I knows people. :wink:
Is it Friday yet? I'm exhausted.
InsTeacher 8)
Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 06:54 am Post Subject:
I suppose the carriers use their own formulas to arrive at this inflated appraisal value. But, is it really beneficial to some customers (apart from creating that false impression on a dear one :) )?
I guess it would be a lot easier for many of us to get in touch with a local jeweler rather than obtaining the contact information of the source.
Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:42 pm Post Subject:
We do not want the cash...I want a new ring
Well then there should be no argument...they are offering you a new ring...and as Ins teacher said, you can probably pick out the one you want.When I worked these types of claims (and incidently I too have an inland marine policy on all my jewelery BUT it's an OLD policy with a guaranteed stated amount-they probably don't even sell this form anymore)..We could replace a 20k ring for about 8k, the mark up is just plain stupid, and borders on theft (IMO)...
I'm with Ins. Teacher where in the world did this 60k figure come from? :?
Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 03:18 am Post Subject:
Lori...
When I worked these types of claims (and incidently I too have an inland marine policy on all my jewelery BUT it's an OLD policy with a guaranteed stated amount-they probably don't even sell this form anymore)..We could replace a 20k ring for about 8k, the mark up is just plain stupid, and borders on theft (IMO)...
If your IM contract stipulates that you will get paid a "guaranteed stated amount," then you have what's called a "stated-value" or "agree-value" contract. They're still available through many insurer, but are normally restricted to antiques, collector vehicles and other specialty items. These contracts are distinctly different from "schedules" or "IM floaters."
So, if your contract is a stated value contract on a ring for say, $5,000, and there's a total loss to the ring, you will receive $5,000. It doesn't matter how much the ring is actually worth, the insurer has "agreed" on a "stated value" of the property and will pay that sum upon loss. So, it doesn't matter if the ring is actually worth $3k or $20k, you'll get $5k.
"Schedules" have completely different indemnification payouts. The maximum they will pay is the scheduled amount, and if they can get it repaired or replaced for less than the scheduled amount- that's what they'll pay.
Man...I wish agents out there would actually take the time to learn something. I hate having to clean up these messes they create by not properly taking care of their clients.
InsTeacher 8)
Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 05:00 am Post Subject:
The 60,000 is the amount of all of our paid premiums over the last 15 years for all our ranches,trucks,etc...My feeling is you pay your premiums on time,dont get screwed for making a claim...We have our Jewlerler on this..He is vey confident well get all our close to the full amount..And i also had a little chat with our insurance agent...especially for telling us he failed to tell us to re-up every 7 years..so now hes on it...Thank you..Miss J.
Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:33 pm Post Subject:
So, if your contract is a stated value contract on a ring for say, $5,000, and there's a total loss to the ring, you will receive $5,000. It doesn't matter how much the ring is actually worth, the insurer has "agreed" on a "stated value" of the property and will pay that sum upon loss. So, it doesn't matter if the ring is actually worth $3k or $20k, you'll get $5k.
Correct, it specficially states that replacement is not required, it pays the stated amount, (i believe one set is 11k, two others around 5k-and NO he didn't pay that for them). It also covers 'mysterious disappearace' and states a theft did not have to occur, as well as loss of the rock(s), (not just entire ring) it's self...as I said this policy (not an endorcement on my HO) is atleast twenty years old, I've got letters from the carrier (nearly every year for about ten years) wanting me to 'review' it for a 'newer form' I of course knew what that 'newer' form was, talked to my agent, to be sure, and the policy condtions have changed, (if I were to get this 'newer form' :roll: ). Fortunately for me...I've been in claims for a long time and checked it out first...I'll keep my 'old' form thank you very much..:wink:
"Schedules" have completely different indemnification payouts. The maximum they will pay is the scheduled amount, and if they can get it repaired or replaced for less than the scheduled amount- that's what they'll pay
.That's the same way a 'stated amount' auto policy is as well, (as opposed to an ACV policy)...Which I total understand how people are confused, if it says 'stated amount' most laymen would think that means..'I get this much" instead in truth it means, 'this is the MOST you can get'...
Man...I wish agents out there would actually take the time to learn something. I hate having to clean up these messes they create by not properly taking care of their clients
Tell me about it! I don't have to tell you what a mess it is on the claims side, and like our OP, this is when it comes up! It's hard for people to 'get' some times, that the adjuster can only work with what the policy says....You don't know how many times, I'd love to get a agent right there with me and the insured, and say, 'look lady! I didn't sell you this .... this idiot over here did...now idiot, you explain to your insured now (since you didn't when you sold it), what this coverage means, because they are pissed off at me, and you're the one they should be mad at! :x "The 60,000 is the amount of all of our paid premiums over the last 15 years for all our ranches,trucks,etc
Oh come on now Miss Jaxon...to follow that logic then...ok, if your ranch burns to the ground, (God forbid) then your carrier will only pay you the amount of premium you've paid ON THE RANCH ONLY...too bad if it's worth 500k...you know this doesn't make good sense, you're a smarter woman than that. .My feeling is you pay your premiums on time,dont get screwed for making a claim
You're 100% correct..but you get paid for your claim for the coverage YOU purchased...Just because you paid your premiums doesn't mean you get coverages or the policy contract wording can change because you were a responsible adult like 90% of the world.He is vey confident well get all our close to the full amount
who is he? Your adjuster?And i also had a little chat with our insurance agent...especially for telling us he failed to tell us to re-up every 7 years..so now hes on it.
Your agent? The same one that didn't explain to you when he sold you a stated amount what it meant? :roll: Not to mention the fact that by not increasing your stated amount he was losing a little more comission...remember now, that increasing that stated amount STILL will only increase the total amount/max you can receive in a claim..there is no guarantee you will get that amount.
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