by tumbras » Wed Oct 21, 2009 02:05 pm
Hello all -
Background I live in NJ and was recently injured (broken right ankle, broken rib, split lip) from an accident involving myself (40 year old male)on my Harley Low Rider and the other driver in a Honda SUV (18 year old male).
The quick of it was that i had just turned right onto the road and was travelling down it - in doing so i saw this SUV appear to have just come from a parking lot of a restaurant (on the left side) and then pause in the middle of the street. At this time, i saw no turn signal indicator, and no on-coming traffic, after making this assessment, i attempted to go around the SUV on the left hand side (on-coming lane side). Within the final 25 feet or so, i then realized that the driver was going to make a left into the pizzaria parking lot, cutting me off as i was trying to go around him, and this resulted in me striking the left front quarter panel of his SUV directly above his left-front tire. I went down on a low-side fall, landing on my right side. When i was able to get my leg free from the bike, i had to have another bystander get the bike turned off as my horn was wailing (the handlebar caved in). I thought to myself, how in the heck did that just happen - it was as if he had just paused there in the street and at the last possible second - decided to make a left turn into the parking lot it appeared he might have just come from. (the front of his SUV appeared to still be slightly angled towards the left side after having backed up, and then paused there in the street)
I had in all about 20 seconds, maybe 30 to relay my information to what turned out to be the reporting officer (though i was asked by more than one officer at the scene)and simultaneously trying to provide information to the paramedics that were working on me. I virtually had zero time to secure any witnesses on my behalf as i was being loaded into the ambulance on way to hospital. It was at this time the officer stated that I was going to be issued a ticket - (Careless driving) i was dumbfounded. She also stated that i should call the court on specified date (sept 17th) and ask specifically to speak with the prosecutor, plead NOT GUILTY, so that i could get the ticket reduced to no point ticket.
I have since then done so (it turned out to be an automated answering system of the traffic section of the court), providing them with the info they asked and specifically stated i had wished to speak to the prosecutor and plead NOT GUILTY. The out-going message stated that i would receive a new court date within a couple of weeks. That was on the 17th of September - 5 days later i called and left a message with the court clerk's office stating i had not heard from anyone. Obviously now - its over a month, and have not heard a word from anyone from the court.
As it turns out - once my wife and i saw the police report, i was surprised to see how one-sided it appeared to be. It stated that the driver stated that he saw that i was going in a high rate of speed as well as a bystander saying the same thing. I was perplexed as i didnt think i was going fast at all, and as it turns out - according to my GPS (Garmin Zumo 550) i in fact was only travelling 22 mph in a 25 mph speed zone. This was within 200 feet of the accident location. ( i dont know how far back they consider apart of an accident location, but felt 200 feet to be suffice). This Definitely didnt seem like my side of the story was accurately depicted - at least not in its entirety.
My argument is this, if the driver SAW me travelling at a high rate of speed, why would he then still decide to make a left hand turn into a parking lot knowing i was approaching from behind him and in the left lane where he eventually turned into? my GPS as far as im concerned is far more accurate an instrument then eye witness testimony. Secondly, I never saw a turn signal indicating he was going to do that (though its stated in the police report that he said he did, BS!) Now, anyone who has taken a motorcycle safety course (i have within past year), knows that you always are more observant of your surroundings - and had i seen a turn signal i would have NEVER attempted to pass by him. I should point out that this 18 year old is a volunteer first aid squad member (so im thinking, is there a bias because he was one of "them" law/first aid community,and police would naturally be more inclined to paint a better picture for this kid, rather than being more objective)? Also, it turns out that the owner of the pizzaria had a conversation with my wife (a couple of weeks ago) and said that while he was outside his front doors, though he says he didnt see the accident as it happened, but thought to himself, he thought the kid had gone past his establishment and dropped the vehicle in reverse thinking, he had just decided to hang a left into his parking lot for lunch. Interesting - as ive never spoken with this guy before and it would make perfect sense to what i had been pleading all along. Unfortunately, he is not willing to make a formal statement as he says he didnt see the actual accident portion of what happened.
So, in speaking with my insurance company liability adjuster (Geico) and providing him with my side of what happened (to include a screenshot of the garmin software showing the uploaded route information - which includes speed, distance of speed,elevation, and duration data), I was still going to be held liable and payout to the other insurer for repair of this guy's SUV. I have been with Geico for over 5 years (car policy and have a 5-year good driver discount applied), and 1 year (motorcycle policy). I have never been in an accident and my last ticket received was over 3 years ago (failure to yield to traffic sign in a circle).
I am not sure what else I can do? Im contemplating perhaps making a claim against other insurer? Sueing the kid for pain and suffering (hospital bills have exceeded $12K (surgery and follow-up orthopedic care for ankle)) and loss of work time (it's now going on two months ive been out of work on temporary disability)
If anyone has any advice/suggestions it would be kindly appreciated.
~nick
Background I live in NJ and was recently injured (broken right ankle, broken rib, split lip) from an accident involving myself (40 year old male)on my Harley Low Rider and the other driver in a Honda SUV (18 year old male).
The quick of it was that i had just turned right onto the road and was travelling down it - in doing so i saw this SUV appear to have just come from a parking lot of a restaurant (on the left side) and then pause in the middle of the street. At this time, i saw no turn signal indicator, and no on-coming traffic, after making this assessment, i attempted to go around the SUV on the left hand side (on-coming lane side). Within the final 25 feet or so, i then realized that the driver was going to make a left into the pizzaria parking lot, cutting me off as i was trying to go around him, and this resulted in me striking the left front quarter panel of his SUV directly above his left-front tire. I went down on a low-side fall, landing on my right side. When i was able to get my leg free from the bike, i had to have another bystander get the bike turned off as my horn was wailing (the handlebar caved in). I thought to myself, how in the heck did that just happen - it was as if he had just paused there in the street and at the last possible second - decided to make a left turn into the parking lot it appeared he might have just come from. (the front of his SUV appeared to still be slightly angled towards the left side after having backed up, and then paused there in the street)
I had in all about 20 seconds, maybe 30 to relay my information to what turned out to be the reporting officer (though i was asked by more than one officer at the scene)and simultaneously trying to provide information to the paramedics that were working on me. I virtually had zero time to secure any witnesses on my behalf as i was being loaded into the ambulance on way to hospital. It was at this time the officer stated that I was going to be issued a ticket - (Careless driving) i was dumbfounded. She also stated that i should call the court on specified date (sept 17th) and ask specifically to speak with the prosecutor, plead NOT GUILTY, so that i could get the ticket reduced to no point ticket.
I have since then done so (it turned out to be an automated answering system of the traffic section of the court), providing them with the info they asked and specifically stated i had wished to speak to the prosecutor and plead NOT GUILTY. The out-going message stated that i would receive a new court date within a couple of weeks. That was on the 17th of September - 5 days later i called and left a message with the court clerk's office stating i had not heard from anyone. Obviously now - its over a month, and have not heard a word from anyone from the court.
As it turns out - once my wife and i saw the police report, i was surprised to see how one-sided it appeared to be. It stated that the driver stated that he saw that i was going in a high rate of speed as well as a bystander saying the same thing. I was perplexed as i didnt think i was going fast at all, and as it turns out - according to my GPS (Garmin Zumo 550) i in fact was only travelling 22 mph in a 25 mph speed zone. This was within 200 feet of the accident location. ( i dont know how far back they consider apart of an accident location, but felt 200 feet to be suffice). This Definitely didnt seem like my side of the story was accurately depicted - at least not in its entirety.
My argument is this, if the driver SAW me travelling at a high rate of speed, why would he then still decide to make a left hand turn into a parking lot knowing i was approaching from behind him and in the left lane where he eventually turned into? my GPS as far as im concerned is far more accurate an instrument then eye witness testimony. Secondly, I never saw a turn signal indicating he was going to do that (though its stated in the police report that he said he did, BS!) Now, anyone who has taken a motorcycle safety course (i have within past year), knows that you always are more observant of your surroundings - and had i seen a turn signal i would have NEVER attempted to pass by him. I should point out that this 18 year old is a volunteer first aid squad member (so im thinking, is there a bias because he was one of "them" law/first aid community,and police would naturally be more inclined to paint a better picture for this kid, rather than being more objective)? Also, it turns out that the owner of the pizzaria had a conversation with my wife (a couple of weeks ago) and said that while he was outside his front doors, though he says he didnt see the accident as it happened, but thought to himself, he thought the kid had gone past his establishment and dropped the vehicle in reverse thinking, he had just decided to hang a left into his parking lot for lunch. Interesting - as ive never spoken with this guy before and it would make perfect sense to what i had been pleading all along. Unfortunately, he is not willing to make a formal statement as he says he didnt see the actual accident portion of what happened.
So, in speaking with my insurance company liability adjuster (Geico) and providing him with my side of what happened (to include a screenshot of the garmin software showing the uploaded route information - which includes speed, distance of speed,elevation, and duration data), I was still going to be held liable and payout to the other insurer for repair of this guy's SUV. I have been with Geico for over 5 years (car policy and have a 5-year good driver discount applied), and 1 year (motorcycle policy). I have never been in an accident and my last ticket received was over 3 years ago (failure to yield to traffic sign in a circle).
I am not sure what else I can do? Im contemplating perhaps making a claim against other insurer? Sueing the kid for pain and suffering (hospital bills have exceeded $12K (surgery and follow-up orthopedic care for ankle)) and loss of work time (it's now going on two months ive been out of work on temporary disability)
If anyone has any advice/suggestions it would be kindly appreciated.
~nick
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 04:24 pm Post Subject:
You mention passing int he oncoming lane. Here is my question... is this legal? I'm going to guess and say no as you mention businesses on the side of the road. As such, the lanes will usually be marked with a solid yellow line. Is this correct?
You also don't mention slowing down or even stopping behind the SUV to determine what he was doing. When I see a vehicle stopped in the only lane of traffic near side businesses I'm going to assume that it's stopped to make a turn. I'm going to slow/stop and give the person time to complete the a turn if this is what they want to do. I then might beep my horn to see if the person might not be paying attention (and to indicate that they should not just be stopped in a lane of traffic). Instead of this it appears you approached the stopped SUV at close to the speed limit and immediately attempted to pass in the oncoming lane without slowing. Is this correct? If so, how is this going to fair up against the other drivers statement that he was stopped to make a left turn with his left turn signal on? I know you state that this was not the case but the adjuster was not there and needs to weight each drivers statement.
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 04:43 pm Post Subject:
I am not sure what else I can do?
Accept what happened and move on with your life.
It would be ridiculous to try to sue the other driver if your own insurance company has concluded that you were at-fault. They are the ones who have to pay for his damages, remember, not you. Why would a court be more likely to find in your favor?
Of course, if the other driver really didn't signal he was partially at fault as well, but since there is no way you can possible prove or disprove your assertion that he did not signal, it's a non-issue.
You could have just slowed down, maybe (god forbid!) even stopped completely for 4 seconds and none of this would have ever happened. But, instead, you made a bad judgement call. It happens to almost everyone at one point or another. My advice is to be thankful your injuries were not more severe.
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 07:30 pm Post Subject:
Thanks to both of you for your replies..
Tcope: THe road in question is a backroad off of Route. 27, there are NO markings anywhere on the road - strictly a residential area that just happens to have both houses and a couple of businesses - so no crossing over a solid line type of a thing.
Tcope and Fishman: actually, i did slow down, from 22 mph to 3 mph (at point of accident) - in the picture you'll see that i initiated a slow down (as a precaution) from 161 feet - 19 feet just prior to accident, so i indeed slow down and hence, the crash was only at 3 mph as i was actively attempting to swerve to the farthest edge of street to avoid his turning into that lane.
Fishman: you are absolutely right, in hindsight - slowing down wasnt enough to anticipate what an 18 yr old driver is capable of doing behind the wheel, assuming his responsibility to look in his rear-view mirror and having seen me according to his own statement, still decided to make a turn into left hand lane. It still doesnt lay right with me. But ultimately yes, i realize now coming to a complete stop would have prevented this - but i ask, honestly, how many people do you know that when having a car stopped in front of you and with plenty of space to either side of the lane, pass around the car? (think of busy intersection or where someone wants to go into a parking lot off of a main road) id be hard-pressed to recall a single person that stops behind the vehicle and doesnt go around it.
Anyway, thank you BOTH for your feedback. Much appreciated :)
~nick
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 02:50 am Post Subject:
If the other driver wanted to make a left hand turn while in the left lane, he should not anticipate or expect another vehicle to be on his left in the oncoming lane. You appear to be totally at fault no matter what the circumstances are.
Now, if the other driver admitted to seeing you and still going, that means that he did not take evasive action to avoid the accident and that makes him partially at fault. Under those conditions, i would make him 20% at fault and you 80%.
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