is it required by law

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:21 pm Post Subject:

is it required by law to give my SSN upon settlement with State Farm Auto Ins?

The adjuster said that he can only cut me a check after I provided him with my SSN. He mentioned that this is in reference to "Section 111 of the Federal Medicare, Medicaid and SCHIP Extension Act of 2007 (Public Law 110-173)".

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 02:02 am Post Subject:

Obtaining your SS# is only for identifying purposes, but you have the right under federal law to refuse this information. Lots of people have refused this information when I ask for it, but it doesn't stop them from getting paid. You adjuster is mistaken.

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 03:31 am Post Subject:

They are probably wanting your ss# for business and tax related purposes related to them cutting you the check.

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 04:08 am Post Subject:

The adjuster is 100% correct. This took effect 9/09 and requires, among others, insurance companies to "ping" Medicare's computer system with the person's name, DOB and SS#. Failure to do this can cost the insurance company $1000/day in fines (I'm 99% sure this is the fine). The information is not "given" to Medicare, the information only serves to note their system if they have paid a claim on the person.

Most people I speak to object to giving this information as they state they are not Medicare eligible. It does not matter... the law is to protect Medicare and they won't know that until their system is ping'ed with this info.

I've spoken with adjusters who work at other carriers and they tell me that their system will allow them to issue payment is they tell it that the info was refused. The carrier I work for can also allow this but let me tell you... it takes an act of god to get them to waive this info. If the person won't give it, we need to pursue _every_ other means to obtain it.

Trust me... no adjuster or insurance company wants to obtain this info... it's a _real_ pain in the butt. But this is just another feel good law for Medicare.

Let me just add that I have a claim where I need to pay Medicare back $10,000. I just need a bill from them in order to issue payment. I entered all the info in the system to ping their system but no response. I called them to ask for the info in order to pay them but they told me I needed to file a "claim". I explained that they already have a claim as they have paid out money. Nope.. I need to file a "claim" and someone would call me w/45 days. No one called. I called them again and now they tell me that they cannot release _any_ info without the person's "ID #". I don't know what that is. I explain again that I want to pay them back $10,000 and I think that _they_ should get authorization to send me the info. They won't. So I want to pay them $10,000 but they just can't ask for it. Another thing... Medicare has always had a "super lien". This means that they can come back at _any_ time and inform the insurance company they they made a payment and ask for the money. Even if the carrier never new about the lien and paid the injured person or medical providers, Medicare can legally require that they be paid back anyway. Medicare is broken on the inside... that is obvious. However, they continue to make up laws requiring other people to correct their problems. But as long as they cannot fix their internal problems, they will continue to piss away tax payers money.

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 04:57 am Post Subject:

What I meant was that a person has every right to refuse giving out their SS# under federal law. I have never had a problem with someone refusing to give it to me in order to recieve payment. Whether or not the carrier obtained it from the person directly or indirectly is unknown. However, the adjuster can ask all he wants-but he has no authority to tell someone that. Like you said, if asked I tell the carrier the request was refused. I have never had a carrier instruct me to press the issue with someone either.

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 05:50 am Post Subject:

The insurance company can then refuse to issue payment. The injured party can then file suit, and pay an attorney 40% plus expenses to represent them in court. Since this just started 9/09 I don't know how the courts are going to look at the requirement. That is, will the lower courts then order the person to give this info as required by law or will the carrier be legally required to issue the payment w/o complying with the Medicare reporting laws.

Again, this just went into effect 9/09, months ago. Prior to that, there was no need to press for this info.

A person has the right not to say anything unless instructed by law... so they certainly don't have to say anything to an insurance company unless ordered by a court. An insurance also has the right not to issue an injury payment unless instructed by a court. So who makes out by the person not giving up their SS#? Certainly not the injured person.

I've also been given a form that a person can fill out. The form does ask for the person's name, SS# and DOB. There is also a section where the person can certify that they are not eligible for Medicare. I've used this form when the person did not have a SS# (it's not required). If the person wants to certify that they are not Medicare eligible and leave their SS# blank my system will allow me to issue payment. So this is an option. Of course, it means I can't issue a payment until I have the completed form.

I currently have a few claims were the injured person issued PIP payments and I only have to reimburse them. But I cannot do this without the person's SS#. Of course the injured person is not communicating with me in any way as their medical bills have been paid. So I'm just letting the claim sit and sit. I have another claim where the person took 9 months to mail the release back to me. In the meantime Section 111 took affect and then they mailed the release back. I am obligated to honor the release and issue payment but I can't due to Section 111. The person refused to give me her SS# (as she claims it could not be used for ID purposes... she is incorrect, Medicare, the IRS, etc use it for ID purposes). So I mailed her the forms to complete. Of course, 4 months later and she's not mailed them back.

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:59 am Post Subject:

I knew there was a medicare law that just went into effect..but didn't know this was 'that' law. I see this routinely in claims now, with bi's (i rarely handle bi's anymore)..where the rep has to fill out a form and it's stamped into (our) claim system...'medicare advised' ...all but the last four of anyone's ss# is blocked out, in our system, and most others..

OP, so it is your choice, you might ask if there is a form you can fill out rather than providing your ss#..try to be a little patient, and understanding..believe me, these laws are a bigger pain in our butt than yours... :wink:

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:47 pm Post Subject:

Thats interesting to know T.

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 09:18 pm Post Subject: Re: is it required by law

Following up on my initial post:
(Thanks for all the info by the way)
I procrastinated a couple weeks and by the time I got on the phone with the adjuster again, he told me that he had already gotten my SSN (He mentioned he got it off the medical records / paid some other company to retrieve it.). Makes me wonder why he asked for it in the first place if he had the resources to obtain it anyways.
Save time I guess?

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 09:18 pm Post Subject: Re: is it required by law

Following up on my initial post:
(Thanks for all the info by the way)
I procrastinated a couple weeks and by the time I got on the phone with the adjuster again, he told me that he had already gotten my SSN (He mentioned he got it off the medical records / paid some other company to retrieve it.). Makes me wonder why he asked for it in the first place if he had the resources to obtain it anyways.
Save time I guess?