Since I can't find anything saying that they [binders] aren't allowed and companies are using them in the state of CA, the logical conclusion is that they are allowed.
Missed commenting on that.
Gee, let's apply your method of reasoning to other laws.
The vehicle code doesn't say you can't drive backwards on the highway. The logical conclusion is that you can drive backwards on the highway. Explain that one to the judge when you've been cited for reckless driving for driving 90 mph backwards on the highway.
There is also no logical reason for CA to not allow them [binders].
Well, in all honesty, even I can't really use the word "logical" and "California" in the same sentence when speaking of the law. The CIC actually lists "suicide" as a condition which may be excluded for coverage by a Long Term Care Insurance policy. As far as I know, the only long term care one needs after committing suicide is lawnmowing over their grave. (They meant "attempted suicide" you say? No, they also included "attempted suicide" in the same sentence, so "logically" the Legislature must believe there is a difference between the two.)
Yes, there is a logical reason not to permit binders in life insurance. THEY DON'T EXIST.
The companies want them.
LOL! No insurance company wants to be bound to insure anyone until underwriting is complete. They agree to it in P&C coverage because in many cases, they know the insured needs to prove coverage in order to obtain other considerations (like closing escrow on a home, necessary to register a vehicle, to be able to drive on a military base, to execute a lease on a commercial building).
But in a conditional receipt they will allow coverage to start only as soon as they have everything they need to complete underwriting . . . IF . . . the insured would be a standard risk. Substandard, no coverage until the rating is accepted (and paid for) by the applicant. Binder, absolute coverage until declined. No insurance company wants that risk in life or disability insurance.
Guaranteed issue life policies don't necessarily guarantee a standard rating. Jet issue policies are almost always applied for by substandard risks. The coverage often does not start before the policy is delivered. Granted, there can be exceptions, but no one receives a BINDER . . . they all receive conditional receipts.
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:04 am Post Subject:
Max, you sure do write a lot. Based upon what you are quoting from the American College, it is quite obvious that "Binder" and "temporay insurance" are not synonymous terms. "Binders" may not be allowed. Temporary insurance is allowed. One does not need to be approved at standard rates.
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:29 am Post Subject:
Max, if I show you a California temporary insurance receipt that shows that one does not need to ultimately be approved standard, will you believe me that I'm correct on this issue?
There are a couple questions that need to be answered in the negative. They have to answer the questions honestly on the application. They do not have to be ultimately be approved standard or better, and in fact, don't have to be approved, thus my example of someone getting turned down for mental health issues but the claim being paid because he got hit by a truck before getting turned down.
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 04:51 am Post Subject:
Doesn't it bother you that no one is jumping into the fray? It does me.
Anyway, from CIC 382.5
which temporarily obligates the insurer to provide that insurance coverage pending issuance of the insurance policy.
Which part of "temporary insurance" are you refusing to recognize.
Based upon what you are quoting from the American College, it is quite obvious that "Binder" and "temporay insurance" are not synonymous terms.
I'll give you an "A" for tenacity, and for reading things into what's actually written. But you're wrong.
Max, if I show you a California temporary insurance receipt that shows that one does not need to ultimately be approved standard, will you believe me that I'm correct on this issue?
Maybe you missed the part where I said
If I'm wrong, I'll be the first one to say so.
POST IT! Transcribe it. Email it to me, I'll transcribe it and post it. Stop playing hard to get! I want to see what, for some unknown reason, has been "for your eyes only."
Last chance. I'm not going to speculate any more on what it is you think you have. Put up or . . . ?
max.herr@verizon.net
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 09:09 am Post Subject:
MASSACHUSETTS MUTUAL LIFE INSURANCE COMPANY
1295 State Street, Springfield, Massachusetts 01111-0001
Temporary Life Insurance Receipt
Person(s) Proposed for Life Insurance
Printed Name of Proposed Insured 1:
First Name Middle Initial Last Name Suffix
Printed Name of Proposed Insured 2 (if applicable):
First Name Middle Initial Last Name Suffix
This Temporary Life Insurance Receipt (“TLIR”) is subject to the Terms and Conditions on the following page. Submission of this TLIR may
provide limited temporary life insurance coverage for a limited period of time if the answer to each of the following health questions is “No”. If
any question is answered “Yes” or left blank, there is no life insurance coverage under the TLIR and no payment may be collected.
Health Questions Proposed
Insured 1
Proposed
Insured 2
1. Has any Proposed Insured:
A. Within the past two (2) years, been treated for or had treatment recommended by a health
professional for Cancer, Heart Attack, Heart Disease, Chest Pain, Stroke, Alcohol or Drug Use,
or Immune System Disorder? .....................................................................................................
B. Within the past 90 days, other than for a normal pregnancy or childbirth, been admitted to a
hospital or medical facility, been advised to be admitted, or had surgery performed or
recommended by a health professional? ....................................................................................
2. Does any Proposed Insured have medical tests or examinations scheduled in the next 90 days except
for pregnancy or childbirth? .....................................................................................................................
Yes No
Yes No
Yes No
Yes No
Yes No
Yes No
Agreements and Signatures
An amount of $ was received as payment on
Date
.
The individuals signing below agree that they have paid the amount indicated above and have received and read (or had read to them) the
TLIR in its entirety. They understand and agree to its Terms and Conditions as stated on Page 2 of this TLIR. To the best of their knowledge
and belief, the answers to all Health Questions stated above are complete, true, and were correctly recorded before they signed their names
below.
Any person who knowingly presents a false statement in an application for insurance may be guilty of a criminal offense and subject to
penalties under state law.
Signed at:
City and State where Owner Signed
XSignature of Proposed Insured 1 Date
XSignature of Proposed Insured 2 Date
XSignature of Owner Date
XSignature of Producer Date
R20CA509 Retained by Company
��
MASSACHUSETTS MUTUAL LIFE INSURANCE COMPANY
1295 State Street, Springfield, Massachusetts 01111-0001
Temporary Life Insurance Receipt
An amount of $
Printed Name of Proposed Insured 1:
First Name Middle Initial Last Name Suffix
Printed Name of Proposed Insured 2 (if applicable):
First Name Middle Initial Last Name Suffix
Received by:
XSignature of Producer
on
Date
Terms and Conditions
This Temporary Life Insurance Receipt (TLIR) provides a limited amount of temporary life insurance in accordance with the
policy identified in the application for a limited period of time on the individual(s) proposed for insurance, subject to the terms and conditions
of this TLIR. It does not guarantee that a life insurance policy will be issued and does not provide disability or waiver of premium benefits.
This agreement is not applicable and no temporary insurance is available under this TLIR if it is issued in association with an application for a
conversion or a guaranteed insurability option. No agent or individual is authorized to waive or alter the terms of this TLIR. As used herein,
“the Company” refers to the Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance Company, and “Application” refers to the application for the life insurance
policy (“Policy”) associated with this TLIR.
Summary.
Make all checks or other payments payable to MassMutual. Do not make any checks or other
payments payable to the producer or leave the payee section blank. The minimum payment required to pay for insurance coverage under
the TLIR is the amount equal to a one-month premium under the policy applied for, regardless of the face amount applied for and the mode
or frequency of payment selected for the proposed policy (“Minimum Payment”).
Payment and Return of Payment.
Any premium amount greater than or equal to the Minimum Payment required may be collected to bind this TLIR. If a death benefit is due
under the TLIR, the initial payment received will be retained by the Company in exchange for the limited insurance provided; however, if the
payment received was greater than the Minimum Payment required, the Company will return the excess amount to the owner. If no death
occurs while this temporary insurance is in force and a Policy is issued, the payment received will be applied towards the first Policy
premium. If no death occurs and no Policy is issued, or the temporary insurance is terminated, the payment received will be returned to the
owner.
Subject to the restrictions contained in this paragraph, any health changes that occur after the latest of (1) the date
the Application Part 1 and Part 2 have been completed and signed, or (2) the date this TLIR has been completed and signed and the
Minimum Payment required with it has been received, or (3) the date that any required medical examination(s) and tests are completed will
not be considered in determining whether to issue the Policy for which the Proposed Insured has applied. The Company reserves the right to
limit coverage under the Policy, based upon its assessment of any such changes in health, to the lesser of (1) the amount applied for, or (2)
$1,000,000. Insurability Protection does not apply to any additional benefits or riders that provide coverage other than life insurance. No
Insurability Protection coverage is provided if (1) the answer to any of the Health Questions is “Yes” or left blank, or (2) health changes are
caused by self-inflicted injury.
Insurability Protection.
R20CA509 Owner’s Receipt – Retain this page for your records
was received as payment for limited temporary life insurance on the life/lives of:
Proposed Insured(s) are eligible for this TLIR and Insurability Protection if they are older than 15-days-old and younger than
75-years-old as of the date of this TLIR, and if the answer to all Health Questions is “No”. If any question is answered “Yes” or left blank, there
is no life insurance in force under this TLIR, no Insurability Protection is provided and no payment may be collected. If this TLIR is issued in
conjunction with an Application for insurance on two individuals, and one individual answers “Yes” to any Health Questions, there is no life
insurance in force under this TLIR for either individual and no Insurability Protection is provided for either individual, and no payment may be
collected.
Eligibility.
Insurance under this TLIR begins on the date of this TLIR if, and only if, the Minimum Payment has been
collected and the Part 1 of the Application has been completed and signed on the same date or prior to the date of this TLIR.
Start Date for Coverage.
However
there is no life insurance coverage in force under this TLIR if the instrument submitted as payment is not honored or there are
insufficient funds to pay the required Minimum Payment as set forth in the Payment and Return of Payment section, above.
Payments by wire transfer or payroll deduction are deemed collected when the required amount is received by the Company.
Insurance and Insurability Protection under Stop Date for Coverage. this TLIR will end on the earliest of:
(1) 90 days following the start date;
(2) 30 days following the start date if the Company has not received Part 2 of the Application and all initial
underwriting requirements (internally published age & amount requirements);
(3) The date the Company refunds the payment made or mails a notice indicating the temporary insurance is
terminated (the Company may terminate this temporary insurance at any time);
(4) The date the Application is withdrawn or the premium payer requests a refund of the payment made;
(5) The date the owner or applicant refuses to accept the life insurance Policy issued; or
(6) The effective date of the new life insurance Policy as described in the Part 1 Application.
If pursuant to Provision 5 in the Stop Date for Coverage Section, coverage would end
because the owner or applicant refused to accept the life insurance Policy issued and the owner or applicant has requested a change from
the Policy originally applied for (“Change”) to a different policy or combination of policies, this TLIR will continue for an additional 30 days from
the date the owner or applicant refuses to accept the life insurance Policy issued and requests the Change, provided any additional amount
necessary to meet the Minimum Payment has been collected.
Changes in the Amount Applied for After Issue.
Upon receipt of due proof that the insured(s) died while this TLIR was in force, the Company will pay the benefit due under this
TLIR to the beneficiary or beneficiaries named in the Application.
Benefits.
If more than one beneficiary is named under this TLIR and/or there are other TLIRs in force on the same insured(s), each beneficiary will
receive a share of the TLIR benefit, subject to the maximum defined in the following paragraph, equal to his or her proportionate interest in
the death benefit(s) that would have been payable had the policy or policies applied for been in force.
The maximum aggregate benefit payable under all TLIRs on the same insured(s), including this TLIR, is the lesser of (1) $1,000,000, or (2)
the total amount of life insurance currently applied for, including the death benefit applied for under any riders, and excluding any disability
coverage. Regardless of the number of TLIRs in force for an Insured(s), the Company’s coverage will be limited to the maximum aggregate
benefit. The Company will pay only one benefit under a single TLIR regardless of the number of insureds named and deaths that occur. If
two insureds are named on a single TLIR, a benefit is payable only upon the second death occurring during TLIR coverage.
At no time will individual(s) be eligible to receive benefits under both a TLIR and the life insurance policy issued in association with that TLIR.
The Company may contest the validity of the insurance coverage or Insurability Protection pursuant to this
TLIR, and deny any benefit due, for any material misrepresentation of fact made on this TLIR or the Application, which includes the Part 1, the
Part 2 and any amendments and supplements to either part. If a Proposed Insured commits suicide while the temporary insurance is in
effect, no death benefit will be paid; the Company’s only liability will be to return the initial payment received to the Owner named in the
Application.
Contestability and Suicide.
R20CA509 Owner’s Receipt – Retain this page for your records
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 09:17 am Post Subject:
Max, there it is. Here it is in a nutshell:
1)Be older than 15 days and less than 75 years old.
2)Include a check for one month premium that doesn't bounce.
3)Answer two questions.
4)The Part 1 must be completed.
Temporary insurance....no requirement to be approved for coverage for this to be in force.
Max, it's quite simple. When we have disagreements, I don't post incorrect information.
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 03:55 pm Post Subject:
This Temporary Life Insurance Receipt (“TLIR”) is subject to the Terms and Conditions on the following page. Submission of this TLIR [quote:2ea1c174d5]may
provide limited temporary life insurance coverage for a limited period of time if the answer to each of the following health questions is “No”[/quote:2ea1c174d5]
Sorry you had to type as much as you did, but I genuinely appreciate the effort. It would have saved a lot of discussion.
I tried to add bold to the word "MAY" in the early part of the excerpt from the CONDITIONAL RECEIPT you transcribed. It certainly says "Temporary Life Insurance Receipt", but it most assuredly is NOT a TEMPORARY INSURANCE agreement (or binder) as you have been trying to get all of us to believe. Why not? Because it specifically says:
This Temporary Life Insurance Receipt (“TLIR”) is subject to the Terms and Conditions on the following page.
That is what makes this document a CONDITIONAL RECIEPT, no matter what the "title" is. It does not promise that insurance is in effect. A dishonored check voids all coverage, for example. A BINDER does not even require an exchange of money, as my excerpt from the American College textbook made clear.
this TLIR will end on the earliest of:
(1) 90 days following the start date;
(2) 30 days following the start date if the Company has not received Part 2 of the Application and all initial underwriting requirements (internally published age & amount requirements);
(3) The date the Company refunds the payment made or mails a notice indicating the temporary insurance is terminated (the Company may terminate this temporary insurance at any time);
(4) The date the Application is withdrawn or the premium payer requests a refund of the payment made;
(5) The date the owner or applicant refuses to accept the life insurance Policy issued; or
(6) The effective date of the new life insurance Policy as described in the Part 1 Application.
If pursuant to Provision 5 in the Stop Date for Coverage Section, coverage would end because the owner or applicant refused to accept the life insurance Policy issued and the owner or applicant has requested a change from the Policy originally applied for (“Change”) to a different policy or combination of policies,
These are most of the conditions of "temporary" coverage -- there are several others.
No court would misconstrue this, as you have, to be a binder of life insurance.
When does coverage begin? It could begin on the date the application is taken, it says that. However, notice that it also says:
This agreement is not applicable and no temporary insurance is available under this TLIR if it is issued in association with an application for a conversion or a guaranteed insurability option.
You would NEVER find those words in a BINDER for insurance.
So, I continue to insist that you misunderstand the nature of life insurance applications and conditional receipts. This is not evidence of a BINDER in any way shape or form. If it was, you would definitely see the word BINDER right at the top of the page. And the rest of the language would be very different.
Sorry to have burst your balloon. If you don't believe me, look for any post from InsTeacher and ask him. Refer him to this thread. Unfortunately, as I have repeatedly said, you have made a serious mistake in your reading of the receipt, the Insurance Code, and my posts.
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 04:03 pm Post Subject:
4)The Part 1 must be completed.
You missed the part about Part 2 must be received. Any insurance that might be provided ends 30 days after the start date if Part 2 has not been received.
No argument that temporary insurance could be in force on Day 1 -- all conditional receipts say that -- but all of the conditions demonstrate that the situation could be different for any number of reasons.
Enough said.
Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 01:16 am Post Subject:
Max, go back and read my first post in this thread. Read the MassMutual temporary insurance receipt. Everthing that I have written is correct.
You calling it a binder and then saying that California doesn't accept binders is a straw man argument. The only who called it a binder is you.
For whatever reason, you are hung up on "Binder" and "Temporary Insurance" being the same thing. Obviously, they aren't synonymous terms.
We can agree that this isn't a binder. Yet, if you want to argue that one needs to be approved standard in order to be covered, that plainly isn't the case.
As you can plainly see, if you write a premium check today that doesn't bounce and fill out the part 1 today and answer the application honestly and say no to those couple of questions, you have coverage today regardless of whether the insurance company ultimately accepts you or not. If you get shot tomorrow, you collect.
MassMutual is great in the regards that not only do they give temporary insurance, but they combine it with a conditional premium receipt, so one's health changes don't matter once a check, part 1 and part 2 have been received.
As for you last post, I didn't miss anything. Even without a Part 2, one is covered for 30 days. With it, one can be covered for 90 days.
Go back and read my posts and you'll see that I'm correct.
Maybe this will help you. A binder may be a type of temporary insurance, but temporay insurance does not have to be a binder. Thus, binder and temporary insurance are not synonymous terms.
Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 01:45 am Post Subject:
The only thing I have to say is that you persisted in arguing that BINDERS for life insurance were indeed permitted, and argued that this CONDITIONAL RECEIPT was in fact, a binder.
It is not a binder, which you now seem to realize and now try to change the issue.
There is nothing for me to re-read. It is entirely consistent with my explanation of a conditional receipt early on. That the words of this receipt permit coverage on Day 1 is acknowledged. But other words of the conditional receipt indicate that it is not a GUARANTEE OF INSURANCE. That's what makes a binder a binder -- that it is a guarantee of insurance (a "temporary insurance AGREEMENT" /not a temporary insurance receipt/) until the company issues the policy or declines the risk. A conditional receipt gives the insurer any number of escapes (as this one you've printed does).
Even without a Part 2, one is covered for 30 days.
Fine, how do you interpret
(the Company may terminate this temporary insurance at any time)
Seems to give them an escape within 30 days.
Again, all of this is splitting hairs over something that never should have been an issue. Your insistence that BINDERS are permitted in life insurance. My answer has always been correct: THERE ARE NO BINDERS IN LIFE INSURANCE. Your "Temporary Life Insurance Receipt" does not constitute a binder, because it is clearly a conditional receipt.
Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 05:38 am Post Subject:
Since I can't find anything saying that they [binders] aren't allowed and companies are using them in the state of CA, the logical conclusion is that they are allowed.
Missed commenting on that.
Gee, let's apply your method of reasoning to other laws.
The vehicle code doesn't say you can't drive backwards on the highway. The logical conclusion is that you can drive backwards on the highway. Explain that one to the judge when you've been cited for reckless driving for driving 90 mph backwards on the highway.
There is also no logical reason for CA to not allow them [binders].
Well, in all honesty, even I can't really use the word "logical" and "California" in the same sentence when speaking of the law. The CIC actually lists "suicide" as a condition which may be excluded for coverage by a Long Term Care Insurance policy. As far as I know, the only long term care one needs after committing suicide is lawnmowing over their grave. (They meant "attempted suicide" you say? No, they also included "attempted suicide" in the same sentence, so "logically" the Legislature must believe there is a difference between the two.)
Yes, there is a logical reason not to permit binders in life insurance. THEY DON'T EXIST.
The companies want them.
LOL! No insurance company wants to be bound to insure anyone until underwriting is complete. They agree to it in P&C coverage because in many cases, they know the insured needs to prove coverage in order to obtain other considerations (like closing escrow on a home, necessary to register a vehicle, to be able to drive on a military base, to execute a lease on a commercial building).
But in a conditional receipt they will allow coverage to start only as soon as they have everything they need to complete underwriting . . . IF . . . the insured would be a standard risk. Substandard, no coverage until the rating is accepted (and paid for) by the applicant. Binder, absolute coverage until declined. No insurance company wants that risk in life or disability insurance.
Guaranteed issue life policies don't necessarily guarantee a standard rating. Jet issue policies are almost always applied for by substandard risks. The coverage often does not start before the policy is delivered. Granted, there can be exceptions, but no one receives a BINDER . . . they all receive conditional receipts.
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:04 am Post Subject:
Max, you sure do write a lot. Based upon what you are quoting from the American College, it is quite obvious that "Binder" and "temporay insurance" are not synonymous terms. "Binders" may not be allowed. Temporary insurance is allowed. One does not need to be approved at standard rates.
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:29 am Post Subject:
Max, if I show you a California temporary insurance receipt that shows that one does not need to ultimately be approved standard, will you believe me that I'm correct on this issue?
There are a couple questions that need to be answered in the negative. They have to answer the questions honestly on the application. They do not have to be ultimately be approved standard or better, and in fact, don't have to be approved, thus my example of someone getting turned down for mental health issues but the claim being paid because he got hit by a truck before getting turned down.
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 04:51 am Post Subject:
Doesn't it bother you that no one is jumping into the fray? It does me.
Anyway, from CIC 382.5
which temporarily obligates the insurer to provide that insurance coverage pending issuance of the insurance policy.
Which part of "temporary insurance" are you refusing to recognize.
Based upon what you are quoting from the American College, it is quite obvious that "Binder" and "temporay insurance" are not synonymous terms.
I'll give you an "A" for tenacity, and for reading things into what's actually written. But you're wrong.
Max, if I show you a California temporary insurance receipt that shows that one does not need to ultimately be approved standard, will you believe me that I'm correct on this issue?
Maybe you missed the part where I said
If I'm wrong, I'll be the first one to say so.
POST IT! Transcribe it. Email it to me, I'll transcribe it and post it. Stop playing hard to get! I want to see what, for some unknown reason, has been "for your eyes only."
Last chance. I'm not going to speculate any more on what it is you think you have. Put up or . . . ?
max.herr@verizon.net
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 09:09 am Post Subject:
MASSACHUSETTS MUTUAL LIFE INSURANCE COMPANY
1295 State Street, Springfield, Massachusetts 01111-0001
Temporary Life Insurance Receipt
Person(s) Proposed for Life Insurance
Printed Name of Proposed Insured 1:
First Name Middle Initial Last Name Suffix
Printed Name of Proposed Insured 2 (if applicable):
First Name Middle Initial Last Name Suffix
This Temporary Life Insurance Receipt (“TLIR”) is subject to the Terms and Conditions on the following page. Submission of this TLIR may
provide limited temporary life insurance coverage for a limited period of time if the answer to each of the following health questions is “No”. If
any question is answered “Yes” or left blank, there is no life insurance coverage under the TLIR and no payment may be collected.
Health Questions Proposed
Insured 1
Proposed
Insured 2
1. Has any Proposed Insured:
A. Within the past two (2) years, been treated for or had treatment recommended by a health
professional for Cancer, Heart Attack, Heart Disease, Chest Pain, Stroke, Alcohol or Drug Use,
or Immune System Disorder? .....................................................................................................
B. Within the past 90 days, other than for a normal pregnancy or childbirth, been admitted to a
hospital or medical facility, been advised to be admitted, or had surgery performed or
recommended by a health professional? ....................................................................................
2. Does any Proposed Insured have medical tests or examinations scheduled in the next 90 days except
for pregnancy or childbirth? .....................................................................................................................
Yes No
Yes No
Yes No
Yes No
Yes No
Yes No
Agreements and Signatures
An amount of $ was received as payment on
Date
.
The individuals signing below agree that they have paid the amount indicated above and have received and read (or had read to them) the
TLIR in its entirety. They understand and agree to its Terms and Conditions as stated on Page 2 of this TLIR. To the best of their knowledge
and belief, the answers to all Health Questions stated above are complete, true, and were correctly recorded before they signed their names
below.
Any person who knowingly presents a false statement in an application for insurance may be guilty of a criminal offense and subject to
penalties under state law.
Signed at:
City and State where Owner Signed
XSignature of Proposed Insured 1 Date
XSignature of Proposed Insured 2 Date
XSignature of Owner Date
XSignature of Producer Date
R20CA509 Retained by Company
��
MASSACHUSETTS MUTUAL LIFE INSURANCE COMPANY
1295 State Street, Springfield, Massachusetts 01111-0001
Temporary Life Insurance Receipt
An amount of $
Printed Name of Proposed Insured 1:
First Name Middle Initial Last Name Suffix
Printed Name of Proposed Insured 2 (if applicable):
First Name Middle Initial Last Name Suffix
Received by:
XSignature of Producer
on
Date
Terms and Conditions
This Temporary Life Insurance Receipt (TLIR) provides a limited amount of temporary life insurance in accordance with the
policy identified in the application for a limited period of time on the individual(s) proposed for insurance, subject to the terms and conditions
of this TLIR. It does not guarantee that a life insurance policy will be issued and does not provide disability or waiver of premium benefits.
This agreement is not applicable and no temporary insurance is available under this TLIR if it is issued in association with an application for a
conversion or a guaranteed insurability option. No agent or individual is authorized to waive or alter the terms of this TLIR. As used herein,
“the Company” refers to the Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance Company, and “Application” refers to the application for the life insurance
policy (“Policy”) associated with this TLIR.
Summary.
Make all checks or other payments payable to MassMutual. Do not make any checks or other
payments payable to the producer or leave the payee section blank. The minimum payment required to pay for insurance coverage under
the TLIR is the amount equal to a one-month premium under the policy applied for, regardless of the face amount applied for and the mode
or frequency of payment selected for the proposed policy (“Minimum Payment”).
Payment and Return of Payment.
Any premium amount greater than or equal to the Minimum Payment required may be collected to bind this TLIR. If a death benefit is due
under the TLIR, the initial payment received will be retained by the Company in exchange for the limited insurance provided; however, if the
payment received was greater than the Minimum Payment required, the Company will return the excess amount to the owner. If no death
occurs while this temporary insurance is in force and a Policy is issued, the payment received will be applied towards the first Policy
premium. If no death occurs and no Policy is issued, or the temporary insurance is terminated, the payment received will be returned to the
owner.
Subject to the restrictions contained in this paragraph, any health changes that occur after the latest of (1) the date
the Application Part 1 and Part 2 have been completed and signed, or (2) the date this TLIR has been completed and signed and the
Minimum Payment required with it has been received, or (3) the date that any required medical examination(s) and tests are completed will
not be considered in determining whether to issue the Policy for which the Proposed Insured has applied. The Company reserves the right to
limit coverage under the Policy, based upon its assessment of any such changes in health, to the lesser of (1) the amount applied for, or (2)
$1,000,000. Insurability Protection does not apply to any additional benefits or riders that provide coverage other than life insurance. No
Insurability Protection coverage is provided if (1) the answer to any of the Health Questions is “Yes” or left blank, or (2) health changes are
caused by self-inflicted injury.
Insurability Protection.
R20CA509 Owner’s Receipt – Retain this page for your records
was received as payment for limited temporary life insurance on the life/lives of:
Proposed Insured(s) are eligible for this TLIR and Insurability Protection if they are older than 15-days-old and younger than
75-years-old as of the date of this TLIR, and if the answer to all Health Questions is “No”. If any question is answered “Yes” or left blank, there
is no life insurance in force under this TLIR, no Insurability Protection is provided and no payment may be collected. If this TLIR is issued in
conjunction with an Application for insurance on two individuals, and one individual answers “Yes” to any Health Questions, there is no life
insurance in force under this TLIR for either individual and no Insurability Protection is provided for either individual, and no payment may be
collected.
Eligibility.
Insurance under this TLIR begins on the date of this TLIR if, and only if, the Minimum Payment has been
collected and the Part 1 of the Application has been completed and signed on the same date or prior to the date of this TLIR.
Start Date for Coverage.
However
there is no life insurance coverage in force under this TLIR if the instrument submitted as payment is not honored or there are
insufficient funds to pay the required Minimum Payment as set forth in the Payment and Return of Payment section, above.
Payments by wire transfer or payroll deduction are deemed collected when the required amount is received by the Company.
Insurance and Insurability Protection under Stop Date for Coverage. this TLIR will end on the earliest of:
(1) 90 days following the start date;
(2) 30 days following the start date if the Company has not received Part 2 of the Application and all initial
underwriting requirements (internally published age & amount requirements);
(3) The date the Company refunds the payment made or mails a notice indicating the temporary insurance is
terminated (the Company may terminate this temporary insurance at any time);
(4) The date the Application is withdrawn or the premium payer requests a refund of the payment made;
(5) The date the owner or applicant refuses to accept the life insurance Policy issued; or
(6) The effective date of the new life insurance Policy as described in the Part 1 Application.
If pursuant to Provision 5 in the Stop Date for Coverage Section, coverage would end
because the owner or applicant refused to accept the life insurance Policy issued and the owner or applicant has requested a change from
the Policy originally applied for (“Change”) to a different policy or combination of policies, this TLIR will continue for an additional 30 days from
the date the owner or applicant refuses to accept the life insurance Policy issued and requests the Change, provided any additional amount
necessary to meet the Minimum Payment has been collected.
Changes in the Amount Applied for After Issue.
Upon receipt of due proof that the insured(s) died while this TLIR was in force, the Company will pay the benefit due under this
TLIR to the beneficiary or beneficiaries named in the Application.
Benefits.
If more than one beneficiary is named under this TLIR and/or there are other TLIRs in force on the same insured(s), each beneficiary will
receive a share of the TLIR benefit, subject to the maximum defined in the following paragraph, equal to his or her proportionate interest in
the death benefit(s) that would have been payable had the policy or policies applied for been in force.
The maximum aggregate benefit payable under all TLIRs on the same insured(s), including this TLIR, is the lesser of (1) $1,000,000, or (2)
the total amount of life insurance currently applied for, including the death benefit applied for under any riders, and excluding any disability
coverage. Regardless of the number of TLIRs in force for an Insured(s), the Company’s coverage will be limited to the maximum aggregate
benefit. The Company will pay only one benefit under a single TLIR regardless of the number of insureds named and deaths that occur. If
two insureds are named on a single TLIR, a benefit is payable only upon the second death occurring during TLIR coverage.
At no time will individual(s) be eligible to receive benefits under both a TLIR and the life insurance policy issued in association with that TLIR.
The Company may contest the validity of the insurance coverage or Insurability Protection pursuant to this
TLIR, and deny any benefit due, for any material misrepresentation of fact made on this TLIR or the Application, which includes the Part 1, the
Part 2 and any amendments and supplements to either part. If a Proposed Insured commits suicide while the temporary insurance is in
effect, no death benefit will be paid; the Company’s only liability will be to return the initial payment received to the Owner named in the
Application.
Contestability and Suicide.
R20CA509 Owner’s Receipt – Retain this page for your records
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 09:17 am Post Subject:
Max, there it is. Here it is in a nutshell:
1)Be older than 15 days and less than 75 years old.
2)Include a check for one month premium that doesn't bounce.
3)Answer two questions.
4)The Part 1 must be completed.
Temporary insurance....no requirement to be approved for coverage for this to be in force.
Max, it's quite simple. When we have disagreements, I don't post incorrect information.
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 03:55 pm Post Subject:
This Temporary Life Insurance Receipt (“TLIR”) is subject to the Terms and Conditions on the following page. Submission of this TLIR [quote:2ea1c174d5]may
provide limited temporary life insurance coverage for a limited period of time if the answer to each of the following health questions is “No”[/quote:2ea1c174d5]Sorry you had to type as much as you did, but I genuinely appreciate the effort. It would have saved a lot of discussion.
I tried to add bold to the word "MAY" in the early part of the excerpt from the CONDITIONAL RECEIPT you transcribed. It certainly says "Temporary Life Insurance Receipt", but it most assuredly is NOT a TEMPORARY INSURANCE agreement (or binder) as you have been trying to get all of us to believe. Why not? Because it specifically says:
This Temporary Life Insurance Receipt (“TLIR”) is subject to the Terms and Conditions on the following page.
That is what makes this document a CONDITIONAL RECIEPT, no matter what the "title" is. It does not promise that insurance is in effect. A dishonored check voids all coverage, for example. A BINDER does not even require an exchange of money, as my excerpt from the American College textbook made clear.
this TLIR will end on the earliest of:
(1) 90 days following the start date;
(2) 30 days following the start date if the Company has not received Part 2 of the Application and all initial underwriting requirements (internally published age & amount requirements);
(3) The date the Company refunds the payment made or mails a notice indicating the temporary insurance is terminated (the Company may terminate this temporary insurance at any time);
(4) The date the Application is withdrawn or the premium payer requests a refund of the payment made;
(5) The date the owner or applicant refuses to accept the life insurance Policy issued; or
(6) The effective date of the new life insurance Policy as described in the Part 1 Application.
If pursuant to Provision 5 in the Stop Date for Coverage Section, coverage would end because the owner or applicant refused to accept the life insurance Policy issued and the owner or applicant has requested a change from the Policy originally applied for (“Change”) to a different policy or combination of policies,
These are most of the conditions of "temporary" coverage -- there are several others.
No court would misconstrue this, as you have, to be a binder of life insurance.
When does coverage begin? It could begin on the date the application is taken, it says that. However, notice that it also says:
This agreement is not applicable and no temporary insurance is available under this TLIR if it is issued in association with an application for a conversion or a guaranteed insurability option.
You would NEVER find those words in a BINDER for insurance.
So, I continue to insist that you misunderstand the nature of life insurance applications and conditional receipts. This is not evidence of a BINDER in any way shape or form. If it was, you would definitely see the word BINDER right at the top of the page. And the rest of the language would be very different.
Sorry to have burst your balloon. If you don't believe me, look for any post from InsTeacher and ask him. Refer him to this thread. Unfortunately, as I have repeatedly said, you have made a serious mistake in your reading of the receipt, the Insurance Code, and my posts.
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 04:03 pm Post Subject:
4)The Part 1 must be completed.
You missed the part about Part 2 must be received. Any insurance that might be provided ends 30 days after the start date if Part 2 has not been received.
No argument that temporary insurance could be in force on Day 1 -- all conditional receipts say that -- but all of the conditions demonstrate that the situation could be different for any number of reasons.
Enough said.
Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 01:16 am Post Subject:
Max, go back and read my first post in this thread. Read the MassMutual temporary insurance receipt. Everthing that I have written is correct.
You calling it a binder and then saying that California doesn't accept binders is a straw man argument. The only who called it a binder is you.
For whatever reason, you are hung up on "Binder" and "Temporary Insurance" being the same thing. Obviously, they aren't synonymous terms.
We can agree that this isn't a binder. Yet, if you want to argue that one needs to be approved standard in order to be covered, that plainly isn't the case.
As you can plainly see, if you write a premium check today that doesn't bounce and fill out the part 1 today and answer the application honestly and say no to those couple of questions, you have coverage today regardless of whether the insurance company ultimately accepts you or not. If you get shot tomorrow, you collect.
MassMutual is great in the regards that not only do they give temporary insurance, but they combine it with a conditional premium receipt, so one's health changes don't matter once a check, part 1 and part 2 have been received.
As for you last post, I didn't miss anything. Even without a Part 2, one is covered for 30 days. With it, one can be covered for 90 days.
Go back and read my posts and you'll see that I'm correct.
Maybe this will help you. A binder may be a type of temporary insurance, but temporay insurance does not have to be a binder. Thus, binder and temporary insurance are not synonymous terms.
Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 01:45 am Post Subject:
The only thing I have to say is that you persisted in arguing that BINDERS for life insurance were indeed permitted, and argued that this CONDITIONAL RECEIPT was in fact, a binder.
It is not a binder, which you now seem to realize and now try to change the issue.
There is nothing for me to re-read. It is entirely consistent with my explanation of a conditional receipt early on. That the words of this receipt permit coverage on Day 1 is acknowledged. But other words of the conditional receipt indicate that it is not a GUARANTEE OF INSURANCE. That's what makes a binder a binder -- that it is a guarantee of insurance (a "temporary insurance AGREEMENT" /not a temporary insurance receipt/) until the company issues the policy or declines the risk. A conditional receipt gives the insurer any number of escapes (as this one you've printed does).
Even without a Part 2, one is covered for 30 days.
Fine, how do you interpret
(the Company may terminate this temporary insurance at any time)
Seems to give them an escape within 30 days.
Again, all of this is splitting hairs over something that never should have been an issue. Your insistence that BINDERS are permitted in life insurance. My answer has always been correct: THERE ARE NO BINDERS IN LIFE INSURANCE. Your "Temporary Life Insurance Receipt" does not constitute a binder, because it is clearly a conditional receipt.
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