by Guest » Wed May 26, 2010 02:54 am
I will try to explain this the best I can but here we go.
Unfortunately due to personnel/health issues in my wife and I lives we had a car reprocessed. We are not proud of this but had no choice...
A couple of weeks after the car was turned in we were notified that we had a claim made on our insurance and it was for this vehicle. The claim is for hail damage though there has not been any hail damage while I had the vehicle. The claim was filed with an incident date of the day before it was picked up. It funny because there was hail storms that day in the area but it was about 45-60 miles away. Anyway... Spoke with insurance company and they are "not" allowed to disclose any information but said it could be the leinholder and that is 100% legal for them to do that.(I assume this is correct). They also let me know I will be responsible for the deductable not the leinholder. They said a leinholder is listed in the policy and gives them the power to make a claim such as the one made BUT.. After reviewing my policy there is NO leinholder stated and actually states under leinholder "none" under all my vehicles. Though this vehicle is the only one with a lein. I let them know this and it seems like red flags have went up. They told me this is a error that the policy writer made but they are the policy writer correct? They told me the leinholder has to be listed but is not and this a definitely an error that was made. Also were does this put me in this situation? What rights does the leinholder have since they are NOT listed on the policy. Just a side not we kept insurance on it until it was turned in but immediately canceled after that. Sorry for the long post. Thanks for all the help in advance.
Unfortunately due to personnel/health issues in my wife and I lives we had a car reprocessed. We are not proud of this but had no choice...
A couple of weeks after the car was turned in we were notified that we had a claim made on our insurance and it was for this vehicle. The claim is for hail damage though there has not been any hail damage while I had the vehicle. The claim was filed with an incident date of the day before it was picked up. It funny because there was hail storms that day in the area but it was about 45-60 miles away. Anyway... Spoke with insurance company and they are "not" allowed to disclose any information but said it could be the leinholder and that is 100% legal for them to do that.(I assume this is correct). They also let me know I will be responsible for the deductable not the leinholder. They said a leinholder is listed in the policy and gives them the power to make a claim such as the one made BUT.. After reviewing my policy there is NO leinholder stated and actually states under leinholder "none" under all my vehicles. Though this vehicle is the only one with a lein. I let them know this and it seems like red flags have went up. They told me this is a error that the policy writer made but they are the policy writer correct? They told me the leinholder has to be listed but is not and this a definitely an error that was made. Also were does this put me in this situation? What rights does the leinholder have since they are NOT listed on the policy. Just a side not we kept insurance on it until it was turned in but immediately canceled after that. Sorry for the long post. Thanks for all the help in advance.
Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 11:23 am Post Subject:
Chop, sorry for your bad luck
Spoke with insurance company and they are "not" allowed to disclose any information but said it could be the leinholder and that is 100% legal for them to do that.(I assume this is correct).
It is correct, the l/holder can turn in a claim on a re-popped car...Your carrier not being able to release any info re: the amount of the claim payment etc...well, I'd question that since you are the named insured, but frankly at this point it's not material.They also let me know I will be responsible for the deductable not the leinholder. They said a leinholder is listed in the policy and gives them the power to make a claim such as the one made BUT.. After reviewing my policy there is NO leinholder stated and actually states under leinholder "none" under all my vehicles. Though this vehicle is the only one with a lein. I let them know this and it seems like red flags have went up. They told me this is a error that the policy writer made but they are the policy writer correct? They told me the leinholder has to be listed but is not and this a definitely an error that was made. Also were does this put me in this situation? What rights does the leinholder have since they are NOT listed on the policy.
The fact that you neglected to list the leinholder doesn't mean there isn't one, and doesn't mean that l/holder doesn't have the same rights provided in the policy. Apparently you (or someone) gave the leinholder the policy information at some point, otherwise they would've slapped their own coll/comp coverage on the vehicle and that would've cost you about ten times the amount of your policy. Further more had your lien holder not been notified (probably in the beginning of the note), they'd have had no idea who to file the claim with.As to the deductible, yes you are responsible for it, but again, this is moot in your situation, because they are going to sell this car, and you will still be responsible for the unpaid balance. Lets say the vehicle sells for 10k and your payoff was 12k, you'd still owe them 2k. Now, lets say due to the hail damage they only get 8k for it...but your carrier pays them 3k for the hail damage, well, now you only owe 1k..understand? No way I'd pay that deductible, since you will have to the balance anyway.
Any chance you bought an extended warranty on this vehicle? GAP policy? and had either of these in your note too? If so get to canceling those as well, maybe lower your pay off.
Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 02:53 pm Post Subject:
Like I said there was not any hail damage to the car. What happens if there really is hail damage and it happen while they have the car? Does this matter? Also is the whole point of this to help pay the loan down? If it really has hail damage I take they just pocket the money but still sell the car like it is correct? Can the insurance cut a check to the lein holder for this even though they are not listed on the policy?
Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 03:11 pm Post Subject:
The lien holder _should_ be listed when their is a lien but as to who's caused this error is unknown. Did someone tell the insurance company that their was a lien holder and they just did not add them or was the insurance company not told? That makes a big difference. However, the insurance company can feel free to add the lien holder regardless. Rather or not they legally have a right to do this is another question. If they do this and had no right, it would them be up to you to press the issue (you may have to take them to court).
If you don't want the claim paid, which I can understand as it goes on your CLUE record, I'd write a letter to the president of the insurance company and tell them that there was no hail damage to the vehicle and also that they have no right to pay the lien holder as there was none listed. I'd end it stating if a claim is paid that you expect that this information will not be recorded against your account and/or be added to a CLUE report. I'd sent it certified mail. I'd also file a complaint with your states Dept of Insurance in that you are a policy holder and they won't tell you about the claim, the lien holder is being paid when their was no lien holder on the policy and that you have _specifically_ told the insurance company that there was no hail damage yet they won't listen to you as the policy holder.
I don't know if this will get you any where but you can try these things.
Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 10:55 pm Post Subject:
Rather or not they legally have a right to do this is another question. If they do this and had no right, it would them be up to you to press the issue (you may have to take them to court).
My vote goes to them having the right...CLEARLY there was a lein since the vehicle was re-popped...also CLEARLY someone advised the leinholder who the insurance carrier was...OP? State? who? Does it matter? I don't think so..Todd gave you good advise, I personally would approach it from a slightly different angle...but his advise is still sound, just a different approach than mine...(I like him :wink: he's one of the 'good guys' too :wink: )
What is your payoff on this car? What is the cars value? or what would you expect they are going to get for it? ...What amount of hail damage are they writing the estimate for? I would DEMAND information about this claim, ie, date of loss, where the vehicle was located when the loss occured, how much damage, copy of the estimate as well as photos of the damage, and when/how much and to whom payment was issued. If they refused I'd ask them where in your policy it says that they can withhold information from the NAMED INSURED regarding ANY claim payment for damage to the insured property...and if they couldn't/wouldn't cough that up pdq..I'd let them know I'm filing a complaint with your states dept of insurance right now..
Like I said there was not any hail damage to the car. What happens if there really is hail damage and it happen while they have the car?
Where did they take it? and has there been hail in that area since they picked it up? If so I'd think they have a policy on it, but wouldn't bet it wouldn't ultimately come back to you any way Was there ANY hail and/or storms in the area, since you've owned the vehicle? You'd be shocked at the number of vehicles I look at and say to the owners, 'hey, got some hail damage there huh?' and they've NEVER seen it...Does this matter?
It sure might...Also is the whole point of this to help pay the loan down?
Yeah, see this is where I was heading, as far as a 'lets see what this can do to help YOU' ....If it really has hail damage I take they just pocket the money but still sell the car like it is correct?
Yep, if they want, but they cannot pocket the money they would have to apply it to your note, if they don't repair it.Can the insurance cut a check to the lein holder for this even though they are not listed on the policy?
See I think they can. The fact of the matter is they ARE the lein holder, and they CAN prove it...the car has been repo'd and they can prove that...so (IMO) regardless of the clerical error or not, they are still the lein holder and have the lein holder rights under the policy.Does your state require that when you register your vehicle you disclose the ins company? They most certainly would have the lein on the title, with the lein holder named. So this could be how everyone knows everyone :wink: I don't know.
Another thing to think about, when you took out this policy it HAD to ask if there was a lein holder...what did you say?
Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 06:36 am Post Subject:
First of all thank you so much for all of the help!!!
To answer your very last question Lori. Yes we were asked and told them about the leinholder. This problem was never fixed even after renewing our insurance multiple times. This also created problems with the leinholder as they were always saying we did not have insurance and sent many letters stateing they were going to take out a policy. This problem was actually was a big headache in its self becuase it was over and over and was never fixed.
Also as for the hail damage goes I have never noticed it thats not to say you couldnt find someing with a magnifing glass but trust me there was no noticable damage if any. How does this work??? Doesnt the insurance have someone that works for them look at the car such as an adjuster? If they do not look at or investigate the situation it could easily be a basic "scam" to help recover some of the money that was lost.
As for the car and the loan itself we are upside down. I guessing they will get 4-6k less than whats owed on the loan at a auction. I actually planed on trying to work out a deal with the lender if willing. I was going and still planing on trying to pay them the amount I would be left oweing. All this really sucks becauce my wife and I have worked hard to have basically perfect driving records and zero claims. Never made a claim before on any insurance.
One last thing. The insurance company is really be hard to work with as they just will not really tell me anything. Its like I just get the run around and keep getting put on hold. They keep saying they are looking into it but just do not know at this time or we can not release that information. They have yet to actually tell who made the claim!!! I am assuming its the leinholder because of the situation.
Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 11:21 am Post Subject:
How does this work??? Doesnt the insurance have someone that works for them look at the car such as an adjuster?
Depends on the carrier, some have their own adjusters that write the estimates, some hire indendents. I'd say you're safe in assuming that someone representing the carrier will look at your vehicle. They won't pay for hail damage that isn't there or isn't hail...most carriers would've checked NOAA, or some similar site to check for hail in the area the vehicle was. They won't just pay it...I've looked at many vehicles after they've been repossed for claim(s) turned in by the lein holder...I promise you the carrier won't pay if the claim(s) isn't valid.As for the car and the loan itself we are upside down. I guessing they will get 4-6k less than whats owed on the loan at a auction
That sucks Chop...sorry..
All this really sucks becauce my wife and I have worked hard to have basically perfect driving records and zero claims. Never made a claim before on any insurance
Heres the thing though, this is a 'comprehensive' claim..yes, it may show up on your clue report...but comp/hail claims are 'non-chargeable' I've never seen a state that allows rate ups for comp/hail claims...so I really don't think you have a thing to worry about there.One last thing. The insurance company is really be hard to work with as they just will not really tell me anything. Its like I just get the run around and keep getting put on hold. They keep saying they are looking into it but just do not know at this time or we can not release that information. They have yet to actually tell who made the claim!!! I am assuming its the leinholder because of the situation.
Who exactly are you calling? Are you calling your agent or policy services or are you actually talking to their claims dept? Have you checked on line for your claim? Most mid-large even some smaller carriers have this on line. If you are not talking to the actual claims dept, you're talking to someone who cannot help you. You need to get the claims dept then get the adjuster assigned to this claim. Actually Chop, what company is it? We might have some ideas who you can contact.
Of course the lein holder turned in the claim...who else?
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