by Guest » Tue Jul 13, 2010 03:22 am
In December 2007, I was arrested for a DUI. I was sentenced the following July, and the careless driving was dropped as part of the plea bargain. I'm in Montana.
Anyways, State Farm has yet not noticed, or has yet to raise my rates (in fact they have gone down slightly). I know the standard wait time for insurance purposes in 3 years; first question, is it 3 years from my arrest or from the court hearing?
Now the sticky situation. My 94 Camaro Z28 recently broke down again, and it is going to cost around $1,000 to fix. It is no longer financially viable to keep fixing her up, as bigger problems loom with the engine that will need to be addressed in the not so distance future as well. So I am stuck between a rock and a hard place; if I get a new car, State Farm is sure to find out about the DUI and will either raise my rates to exhobort levels, or just drop me completely. If I put money back into my Camaro, I'm basically throwing money at a short-term solution, and there is no guarantee it won't break down in a much more expensive fashion before year's end.
How do I go about finding out how much insurance would be for me with my DUI on record without alerting State Farm? I believe I am still under my parents insurance (I'm 27, don't judge me), so that may be part of the reason they haven't noticed?
Would it be possible for my Dad to purchase insurance on a new vehicle for me?
I can easily afford a new car around $10,000 or so, but I certainly couldn't afford to commit to a $180 a month car payment and then have my insurance quadruple.
Any suggestions?
Anyways, State Farm has yet not noticed, or has yet to raise my rates (in fact they have gone down slightly). I know the standard wait time for insurance purposes in 3 years; first question, is it 3 years from my arrest or from the court hearing?
Now the sticky situation. My 94 Camaro Z28 recently broke down again, and it is going to cost around $1,000 to fix. It is no longer financially viable to keep fixing her up, as bigger problems loom with the engine that will need to be addressed in the not so distance future as well. So I am stuck between a rock and a hard place; if I get a new car, State Farm is sure to find out about the DUI and will either raise my rates to exhobort levels, or just drop me completely. If I put money back into my Camaro, I'm basically throwing money at a short-term solution, and there is no guarantee it won't break down in a much more expensive fashion before year's end.
How do I go about finding out how much insurance would be for me with my DUI on record without alerting State Farm? I believe I am still under my parents insurance (I'm 27, don't judge me), so that may be part of the reason they haven't noticed?
Would it be possible for my Dad to purchase insurance on a new vehicle for me?
I can easily afford a new car around $10,000 or so, but I certainly couldn't afford to commit to a $180 a month car payment and then have my insurance quadruple.
Any suggestions?
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 02:09 pm Post Subject:
is it 3 years from my arrest or from the court hearing?
Date of incident
How do I go about finding out how much insurance would be for me with my DUI on record without alerting State Farm?
Pointless, SF will find out eventually. Better to call and find out now, waiting is not going to make things better.
I believe I am still under my parents insurance (I'm 27, don't judge me), so that may be part of the reason they haven't noticed?
Time to slip on the big boy pants and take some responsibility. It's possible that they don't know because of being on your parent's policy, but it will only be a matter of time before they find out.
Would it be possible for my Dad to purchase insurance on a new vehicle for me?
Sure he could, why don't you purchase your own insurance?
but I certainly couldn't afford to commit to a $180 a month car payment and then have my insurance quadruple.
Well, you made a bad choice. Now it's time to man up and take responsibility.
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 04:41 pm Post Subject:
Now it's time to man up and take responsibility.
People used to say the thing they never learned in school was how to balance a checkbook. Until they realized they learned everything they needed to know to do that by the 2nd grade (kindergarten, today).
But I can definitely say they stopped teaching PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY decades ago. There ought to be some kind of "continuing education" requirement in this subject for the general public.
As a learned man once said to his office of agents: Each of us is the sum total of the choices we have made until now. What we are by the time we die depends on the choices we make in the future beginning today.
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 07:08 pm Post Subject:
Wow, this site is an auto insurance forum, with bonus life lessons!? What more could a man ask for.
I spent 7 years in college, taking time off, going year round so I could work part-time jobs to be able to afford to rent a place and pay for food, and I still ended up with a fairly large chunk of student loans. Lucky me, this foray into the educational system ended smack dab in the middle of the biggest recession this county has seen in my short lifetime, December 2008. I was unable to find work until late Spring 2009, and only recently was able to afford my own place (yes I lived with my parents right out of college).
Yes I'm on my parents insurance, and family plan for cell phone as well. I pay them the 1st of every month for their services since my first paycheck, and I even paid them rent while I lived there even though they said I did not have to.
Maybe I should be like the rest of the country, too proud too accept financial help, max out my credit cards and spend the rest of my life paying off the debt? Is that the big boy way?
And what exactly did you want me to do, ring up State Farm and say "Hey I just got a DUI, would you please kindly raise my rates for me? If that doesn't work for you, you could just drop me altogether!"
I paid my fines, did my community service. I made a mistake, I've moved on, wiser for it.
If anyone has any information actually relevant to the problem I posted, I would appreciate it. If I wanted a lecture on how to live my life, I'd convert to Catholicism.
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 08:00 pm Post Subject:
Is that the big boy way?
Well, ignoring it or "dancing around" the issue is not going to make it easier. You made a bad decision, a mistake-now, take what you have learned from your life experiance, college etc. and apply it this situation. You are the only solution to your problem. That is the big boy way.
And what exactly did you want me to do, ring up State Farm
Yes, that would be a step in the right direction. Call them, explain what has occured and what needs to happen from here.
"Hey I just got a DUI, would you please kindly raise my rates for me? If that doesn't work for you, you could just drop me altogether!"
:roll:
It doesn't matter if you choose to stay on your parents policy with SF or another carrier. Either way your rates will go up once the information is discovered. SF or someone else won't/may drop you (they could), but you will just pay for it because of the incident, even if it is your last. I don't care if you don't like what I or someone else has to say. You need to deal with it and handle it in the most mature way. That is the only way your situation is going to improve.
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 08:46 pm Post Subject:
My apologies if you took my comments as insensitive to your situation -- which was not previously stated. Sure, there are millions of other folks in similar straits when it comes to employment, and it could be said that our government is doing mostly the wrong things to make it better. But that's not the point.
You're asking licensed insurance professionals who have a public responsibility to be truthful when we help a client fill out an application for insurance, for a claim, or when we believe we've discovered someone trying to perpetrate insurance fraud. Answers you get from others here who are not licensed agents often have to be taken with a grain of salt (or more).
But here you are asking for advice on how to deceive, or conceal information from, an insurance company concerning a PUBLIC RECORD of a DUI conviction. While you might find an agent somewhere willing to conspire with you to do that, which makes both of you guilty of a felony, I doubt you'll find one here on this forum.
So you don't like having to pay a $100 down payment on an auto policy. Fine, I can understand that. Guess what? I don't like having to pay $1500 per year for two cars (2002 and 2005) and based on perfect driving records.
But you have to accept the fact that a conviction related to your driving has a direct implication for the premiums you and the rest of us pay. It affects premiums of other drivers in your state because you're not paying the correct premium based on your perceived risk on paper.
We'll take it on face value that you learned a lesson the hard way and won't ever do it again. But a blemish on your driving record will eventually surface -- probably. Imagine what you'd be asking us if the following were to occur:
You obtain auto coverage based on the fact that you manage to conceal your driving record in your application for insurance. Three years later, you're involved in a collision, but insured by the same company without interruption after all these years, even have a "good driver discount" perhaps.
The claims examiner pulls your DMV report which happens to still have the DUI conviction from a year or two before the date of your application listed. Wasn't supposed to be there, but it is. Computer error at the DMV. The application asks, "Have you or any driver listed in this application been convicted of driving under the influence or reckless driving?" You answered, "NO," hoping they won't check. And they didn't, at the time. (Doesn't mean they cannot ever check.)
Your carrier sends you a letter rescinding your coverage back to day one, which it is entitled to do, because "CONCEALMENT" (neglect to communicate that which a party knows, and ought to communicate, is concealment.), whether intentional or unintentional, entitles the "injured party" to rescind. (You can look it up in the California Insurance Code, Sections 330-332, as an example.) Because you answered a direct question incorrectly, that's also known as MISREPRESENTATION, which leads to the same end result, because the facts do not match the statement.
Then you get a letter from the DMV stating that your driving privilege is being revoked for not having insurance. And now you have to file an SR-22 to get it back. To get the SR-22 causes you to pay an even higher premium, because you can't get the SR-22 without paying for the insurance first.
If all of that happened, you'd be on this site in a hot minute demanding to know if they can screw you like that, and what can you do about it.
Well, no one is screwing you -- it's entirely a solo act. It just doesn't feel so good at this point.
So what the two of us who have previously replied have tried to tell you is that you're being immature, despite your age and worldly wisdom, trying to keep something hidden from an insurance company they will probably discover on their own, expecting to save a few dollars in the meantime.
Every action has a consequence. DUI results in loss of liberty, loss of income, loss of savings, and higher insurance premiums that can result in more of the same to some extent.
Personally, I'm in favor of applying the same "asset forfeiture" laws that apply to drug offenses in a similar fashion to DUI -- seize the vehicle on the spot of the arrest. If the conviction stands, the vehicle is confiscated and sold to raise money to compensate victims of drunk driving accidents. ("But I still owe money on the car to the bank." Too bad, shouldn't have been driving while intoxicated.) If found not guilty, then the person can have the vehicle back, after paying the impound fees that have accumulated. At least that would prevent delaying the trial for as long as possible.
If you don't want them to find out based on your self-disclosure, fine, don't apply for more/new/replacement insurance.
But don't say that anyone here told you to drive without insurance, because that is definitely NOT what I am suggesting.
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 03:16 am Post Subject:
I live in a glass house and throw a lot of stones. I don't see anywhere where you are trying to conceal the fact that you got a DUI, you just aren't calling them up and giving them the information. They run records all of the time and my personal thought is that it is up to them to find it. If it after the 3 years and its not on your record...tough nuts to them. My carrier found my mistake within about 4 months. No I didn't tell them, they found it. It really depends on how much they check.
December 2007.....man you only have what, 6 months to go until it falls off. Myself, I would try and make it, but it is really up to you. Worst case, they find it in the next 6 months and drop you or raise your rates. You can always go with another carrier. If you want an idea, call up Progressive (they'll cover anyone - even me) and see if they can give you a quote with the DUI (tell them up front).
My rates on a two year old car went up about 100 bucks a month between the carrier that dropped me and progressive, but were half of another quote from AllStateFarmWide (large carrier). I was about your age when it happened, but it was also 10 years ago.
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:36 am Post Subject:
I don't see anywhere where you are trying to conceal the fact that you got a DUI
How do I go about finding out how much insurance would be for me with my DUI on record without alerting State Farm?
if I get a new car, State Farm is sure to find out about the DUI and will either raise my rates to exhobort levels, or just drop me completely.
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:43 am Post Subject: insurance
OP...you said you were under your DAD'S insurance? Then, (I believe) you asked.......(paraphrasing) 'if Your insurance will go up?'. If the insurance isn't in YOUR name, then, no..it won't. Your DAD'S insurance will go up!! If you have the money to "buy a good used car" outright, then why don't you get a policy of your own?
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 04:50 pm Post Subject:
I apologize if I overreacted to earlier comments as well. The only reason I explained my college & job thing was in direct response to accusations about personal responsibility.
The lawyer I hired when I got my DUI (who turned out to be to the biggest waste of money in my entire life), told me that I do not have to alert State Farm of my DUI, and that sometimes they find out right away, other times it takes awhile, and rarely they don't ever pick up on it. I took my lawyer's advice and did not alert State Farm, especially since he told me State Farm is about the harshest on DUI's.
I am on my parent's, but the insurance card is in both our names since I believe the title of the car is in both our names.
I wanted to get quotes from other insurers while being upfront with them about my DUI, as it would be pointless to try and get quotes without it because they would find it right away. I was only concerned that using Progessive's compare tool would check State Farm and would therefore alert State Farm about my DUI.
I don't want to lie about the DUI, but I'm not going to alert my insurance company about a misdemeanor in which I pretty much had the book thrown at me (max on about every fine) for a first offense.
I got a quote from Progessive with a $500 deductible on a 2009 Pontiac G6 Coupe, and it was $105 a month for full coverage, compared to $88 with my old car, which is not a big deal.
I would rather stay with State Farm, which is why I was hoping it would just pass.
Or I simply throw money back into my Camaro and ride it out until it completely falls apart which I hope would be past December. :P
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 05:42 pm Post Subject:
The lawyer I hired when I got my DUI (who turned out to be to the biggest waste of money in my entire life), told me that I do not have to alert State Farm of my DUI, and that sometimes they find out right away, other times it takes awhile, and rarely they don't ever pick up on it. I took my lawyer's advice and did not alert State Farm, especially since he told me State Farm is about the harshest on DUI's
Live and learn. As Tom Hank's character remarked near the end of the movie, Philadelphia, "What do you call 100 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean? A good start." You found one that wasn't included in the good start.
Not being a State Farm agent, I cannot tell you what their reaction would be. But I know that State Farm will decline to issue a life policy on a person who is a convicted felon. Is that harsh? Probably.
Your lawyer also tap danced around the issue of disclosure rather well. To the best of my knowledge, no state law or insurance contract "requires" you to notify the insurer when you are convicted of any traffic offense, whether running a stop sign, speeding, reckless driving, or DUI. As a matter of course, they will discover it when they routinely pull a copy of your DMV, which apparently hasn't happened in over 2 years. That's State Farm's choice/error.
How do you know they haven't previously discovered it, and have simply chosen to overlook it? That's one possibility that has not come up for discussion.
But every time you fill out an application for new insurance, and sometimes in the case of a renewal policy, you are going to be asked about prior driving and other convictions, and they must be disclosed. Failure to disclose such "material information" subjects you to the "death penalty" -- your loss of the insurance -- probably at the moment you really needed it.
Now, as to your concern about getting a quote from Progressive somehow alerting State Farm to your driving record . . . that would never happen. Insurance companies, due to any number of privacy laws, do not ordinarily communicate with one another. And certainly not in the quoting process.
I don't want to lie about the DUI, but I'm not going to alert my insurance company about a misdemeanor
Is this possibly the first true moral dilemma?
Well, I suppose that's the decision you have to wrestle with on your own. None of us likes having to pay more than we feel is reasonable for our various insurances. But we have to play by "their" rules, some of which are imposed by state law, while others are condoned under state law.
Add your comment