by Guest » Tue Aug 31, 2010 07:18 pm
Is this bad faith?
I bought my Genuine Buddy scooter new last year for $3500. My scooter was vandalized and totaled this summer. They offered me $1790 for compensation, saying that since I drove it, this is what it would cost to replace it. Now I can't buy a new scooter because you in fact cannot replace one for $1790.
My friend just got into an accident on his scooter which cost $1100 used. The frame was bent a little and his company wrote a check for $2620 - the amount it would cost to replace the frame with a new one.
Is this bullXXXX? Can I sue? I've edited your post-knock of the cursing!-moderator Lori
I bought my Genuine Buddy scooter new last year for $3500. My scooter was vandalized and totaled this summer. They offered me $1790 for compensation, saying that since I drove it, this is what it would cost to replace it. Now I can't buy a new scooter because you in fact cannot replace one for $1790.
My friend just got into an accident on his scooter which cost $1100 used. The frame was bent a little and his company wrote a check for $2620 - the amount it would cost to replace the frame with a new one.
Is this bullXXXX? Can I sue? I've edited your post-knock of the cursing!-moderator Lori
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 07:32 pm Post Subject:
Your policy does not cover replacing the old scooter with a new one... they owe you the current value of the scooter that was damaged. How much could you have sold your old scooter for before it was damaged? This is what is being considered.
Your friend was paid for the repairs... this is different then the cost. Also, what he bought it for might be different from it's value.
What is the value of your scooter? Have you done some research on the value? If not, how do you know their amount is incorrect? You also need to review their valuation to make sure it's correct.
You can sue anyone at anytime. Proving your case and winning is something different.
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 07:58 pm Post Subject:
The repairs would have cost several thousand dollars. Maybe $2500 or more. They said it would cost too much so they were doing a total loss. So they took the scooter and gave me $1790 instead. I have a feeling they get more out of it giving me a total loss, and so they just did this instead of repairing it, which would have cost them more money.
Their valuation is an average of three quotes... which I'm suspicious of because I don't know if there are three used scooters of my type in the state, since it wasn't that old and there aren't many of them. How do they get their quotes?
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 08:40 pm Post Subject:
I have a feeling they get more out of it giving me a total loss, and so they just did this instead of repairing it, which would have cost them more money.
That is correct. This is what your policy states and it only makes sense. Would you repair something when you could buy the same thing for less?How do they get their quotes?
You need to ask them... different carriers use different means. You say that its worth more. How do you know this? If you've not reviewed their evaluation and not done your own research then how can you know their evaluation is incorrect?Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 09:01 pm Post Subject:
"Would you repair something when you could buy the same thing for less?"
- No, which is why I'm trying to figure out if they are acting in bad faith. I cannot buy a used scooter like mine for that much, so I would rather have it repaired at whatever cost.
bottom line: I cannot repair or replace my scooter. I now have no scooter. Yet my friend got doled out $2500 for a repair. Why is it that his insurance company helped him, and my insurance company screwed me? Is it bad faith, or is that just the way it works? If it IS just the way it works, then I could have saved money by NOT paying them $360 for the policy, and selling the cosmetically damaged scooter on craigslist!
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:00 pm Post Subject:
Your policy most likely states a total loss will be settled on the basis of ACTUAL CASH VALUE, which is defined as Replacement Cost minus Depreciation. It is virtually a given that a motor vehicle loses at least 30% or more of its value just for driving the vehicle off the dealer's lot.
Comparing your situation to your friend's is probably an invalid comparison. His scooter is obviously not the same as yours -- it's worth more, even though he paid less. An insurance company does not voluntarily pay more in a claims situation than it legally is required to do, otherwise it would have to do so in all claims, under a legal concept called ESTOPPEL.
Here's my thought. You overpaid for your scooter when you purchased it, further exacerbating the problem of ACV -- have you considered that possibility? On the Genuine Scooters website, the 50cc Buddy model has an MSRP of $1999 (plus delivery/dealer costs) and the 125cc Buddy model has an MSRP of $2699. I can't see a dealer/delivery charge running more than a couple of hundred dollars at most. So with taxes and license fees, $3500 sounds at least a few hundred too high to me. (The Buddy Black Jack retails for $3499, so maybe this is the model you had? If that's the case, perhaps the ACV was low by a few hundred dollars, but you apparently accepted that valuation by accepting the check which you could have declined.)
So, unless your model was the Black Jack, $1790 / $2699 = about 66% of list, and is entirely consistent with first year depreciation plus taxes and license fees on a replacement vehicle. I'm not convinced that you were dealt with unfairly. Certainly not bad faith, and not an unreasonable example of "how it works."
I could have saved money by NOT paying them $360 for the policy,
Maybe so. That's always one of the considerations when purchasing insurance -- perceived value in exchange for premiums. However, operating a motor vehicle without the proper proof of financial responsibility (cash, bond, or insurance) subjects your driver license to suspension. And I can assure you that if you didn't like $360 for a one year policy, then you proabably wouldn't like $750+ for a policy issued in light of an SR-22 filing.
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:25 pm Post Subject:
Yet my friend got doled out $2500 for a repair.
Perhaps the insurance company had no idea of the value of the scooter and paid too much. But I'm guessing that there is actually something else that was different. If you don't believe that your insurance companies owes the lesser of the repair cost or value.... read your policy. It's very clear on this subject.I cannot buy a used scooter like mine for that much, so I would rather have it repaired at whatever cost.
You keep saying this but 1) is appears your insurance company obtained the prices of 2 scooters like yours that were sold for the amount they paid and 2) you've still yet to answer my question on how you know your scooter was worth more. I can't tell you the number of times I've told people what I'm going to pay on their vehicle, they tell me it's worth more and when I ask them what they think it's worth they can't tell me.Is it bad faith, or is that just the way it works?
It's not Bad Faith if you simply _think_ your scooter is worth more. You _1st_ need to prove that it is and then share this information with your insurance company.then I could have saved money by NOT paying them $360 for the policy
You bought the scooter "last year" so you've paid no more then $360. Your insurance company is offering $1790 and you think keeping the $360 is better then getting $1790? :roll:You _can_ always keep the scooter... your insurance company will deduct it's salvage value from their offer. If you think you can sell it, as is, for $1200.... go for it. i'm betting the deduction for salvage will be far less. So this would put even more money in your pocket.
Truth is... I think you have your amounts incorrect.
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 07:13 am Post Subject:
I think the correct answer is that my friend's insurance company had no idea of the value of the scooter and paid too much, which is good for him. Additionally, thank you tcope for giving me this useful information: that you can deduct the salvage value from the offer. Next time I am certain that it would be more useful to keep a cosmetically damaged vehicle than to just have it squished.
Feel free to continue to think what ever else you want, the rest is unimportant.
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 02:44 pm Post Subject: Total Loss Amount
I was in an accident 7-5-2010. The other driver was cited
for the accident and our boat and tandem trailer were total losses. I provided fair replacement value for boat @ $4000.00 and trailer at $1970.00. Repair estimate was $6300.00 plus tax and repair to motor which they could not determine amount yet.
Insurance company is only offering $4,045.00.
Do I have to accept this offer or can I expect the fair price between the replacement estimate or re[air estimat
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 03:35 pm Post Subject: Total Loss Amount
I was in an accident 7-5-2010. The other driver was cited
for the accident and our boat and tandem trailer were total losses. I provided fair replacement value for boat @ $4000.00 and trailer at $1970.00. Repair estimate was $6300.00 plus tax and repair to motor which they could not determine amount yet.
Insurance company is only offering $4,045.00.
Do I have to accept this offer or can I expect the fair price between the replacement estimate or re[air estimat
Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 03:14 am Post Subject:
I provided fair replacement value for boat
Fair replacement value and ACTUAL CASH VALUE are not necessarily the same things. And a repair estimate that exceeds either is immaterial.
ACV = replacement cost minus depreciation. The insurance company may be agreeing with you that the replacement cost is $5970, but also telling you that they consider $1925 the amount of depreciation to be deducted.
Ask them how they arrived at their settlement amount. If you don't think it's fair, then argue a bit more for your position. The rule in sales is never accept the first, "NO." The rule in claims is, "The first offer is not always the best offer."
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