by ccm » Mon Nov 01, 2010 03:51 am
My stepson was in an accident and the other driver was ticketed and has admitted fault.
His car has $2500 worth of damage from the accident which the adjuster claims is 64% of the NADA value of the vehicle (but they are totaling it).
They have determined that the vehicle is in average condition but have deducted 20% off the NADA value ($4025).
The vehicle also has 149,000 miles (it's a 1995) and they've deducted another 20% for high mileage.
The kicker is that they have estimated $2100+ for prior damage to the car (some dents and a backup into a rock on the bumper). These are relatively minor and did not affect the car itself which WAS a very reliable vehicle with good interior, AC and well maintained).
The original offer of ACV of the vehicle was $500 and when we refused that they offered us $1000. My question is can they deduct 100% what it would cost to repair the prior damage or just a percentage?
Sorry for the lengthy question, I just wanted to get out all the facts and understand if I am being unreasonable. $1000 would certainly not buy him another vehicle that was as reliable as this one.
CC
His car has $2500 worth of damage from the accident which the adjuster claims is 64% of the NADA value of the vehicle (but they are totaling it).
They have determined that the vehicle is in average condition but have deducted 20% off the NADA value ($4025).
The vehicle also has 149,000 miles (it's a 1995) and they've deducted another 20% for high mileage.
The kicker is that they have estimated $2100+ for prior damage to the car (some dents and a backup into a rock on the bumper). These are relatively minor and did not affect the car itself which WAS a very reliable vehicle with good interior, AC and well maintained).
The original offer of ACV of the vehicle was $500 and when we refused that they offered us $1000. My question is can they deduct 100% what it would cost to repair the prior damage or just a percentage?
Sorry for the lengthy question, I just wanted to get out all the facts and understand if I am being unreasonable. $1000 would certainly not buy him another vehicle that was as reliable as this one.
CC
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 04:19 am Post Subject:
The kicker is that they have estimated $2100+ for prior damage to the car (some dents and a backup into a rock on the bumper)
My question is can they deduct 100% what it would cost to repair the prior damage or just a percentage?
I've worked for a company that did this and it's 100%, no ifs ands or buts, incorrect.Can they do it? Yes, they can "do" anything they want.
Here is why it's incorrect....
Minor damages are already figured into the ACV of an older vehicle. Damages don't diminish the value of a 15 year old vehicle like they do a 1 year old vehicle. The insurance company is saying that they do.
In what condition were the other 15 year old vehicles that NADA used? Of course they had some damage... they were 15 years old.
Lastly, and here is the part they won't be able to argue with, is that they are saying spending $1000 in a repair is going to increase the value your your vehicle by $1000... that is, dollar for dollar. Ask them if it had a $1000 radio in it if this would increase the value by exactly $1000. If not, then how would a $1000 repair increase the value by $1000.
Given all of these facts it would be clear to _any_ adjuster that depreciating the value of a vehicle by the exact cost of repair is incorrect. Will this make them change their minds? Not if they simply want to screw you over.
If they won't more on their position I'd simply file suit in small claims court. File for full NADA (considering high mileage), loss of use, and court costs. Fill out the court paperwork and fax or mail it to their insured and cc the insurance company. Give their insured 14 days to pay the amount. Off to reduce your demand less the court costs if its paid within that time. Again, address to their insured and send a courtesy copy to the insurance company.
While they can argue what they are doing is correct, I can tell you that the way they are figuring the value is 100% incorrect. I'd personally like to kick that insurance company in the nuts. Who are they?
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 04:57 am Post Subject: Thank you for helping me understand
You hit the nail on the head in that they can DO anything that they want.
I have been in a few fender benders some my fault and others were not, but I have always found the insurance adjusters to be fair and reasonable until now.
The company I'm dealing with is Endeavor General Agency but the company is called Old American County Mutual out of Dallas, Texas. Apparently it is only sold through general agencies. The general agency must be pretty small because I've got a claims rep and her boss and I haven't been able to speak with anyone higher.
If it comes to small claims court would I just "cc" Endeavor? or Old American too?
I'm afraid this has been difficult from the start since it took two weeks to find their insured and we've been haggling to get to $1000 for a week already. This is after I faxed a letter to compromise at $2300. Was this wrong? Of course they said that was an impossible amount.
Thanks again so much, you've proven that I'm not crazy (at least about this).
CC
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 06:42 am Post Subject:
I'd at least cc who ever sent you any paperwork (the adjuster). Feel free to cc the other company if you'd like.
Filing in small claims is easy... it's serving their insured that might be a bit more difficult. Using the arguments I've mentioned you should have an easy time showing a judge that deducting the repair cost if not the same as how the damages lower the over-all value. Again, if you add $1000 in upgrades to a vehicle does the value increase by $1000? Of course not. The older a vehicle gets, the less the damage diminishes the over-all value as people expect a 15 year old vehicle to have some damage.
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 02:53 pm Post Subject:
Good suggestions by T.
Only thing I might do differently would be to send the tort feasor (at fault driver or insured) a letter of your intent to take action against them for their insurer failing to settle reasonably with you. I'd even copy portions of this thread to accompany your letter. You might save 50 to 100 dollars in court filing fee's and service of process costs in order to do what a disgruntled policy holder might be more than happy to do for you. Of course if you proceeded in court, those costs may likely be recovered. I'd cc the same letter to the insurer or adjuster. In the process, you might suggest the insured consult an attorney on the merit of filing a bad faith lawsuit against his own company. That might speed the process up a bit. I'd be more than happy to email you a sample of a suggestive letter that you might edit for your own use. Others have had success with it.
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 06:58 pm Post Subject:
Mike:
I would greatly appreciate anything that you have that might help resolve this.
I've looked into sending setting up a small claims suit, but I had hoped they would be reasonable - perhaps a letter to the tort feasor and cc'ing them will help move this towards resolution
I haven't had a chance to talk to the adjuster's supervisor about the dollar for dollar issue since she is out of the office today. I'm just surprised that there are only two people in this agency able to made these decisions.
I also find it difficult to believe that they would incur several thousand dollars in attorneys fees when they could easily come up with a reasonable amount and move on. Are they required to provide an attorney for their insured?
My email is ccmarketgirl@yahoo.com
Thanks again to both of you. This forum has been extremely helpful.
CC
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 07:12 pm Post Subject:
I still want to kick that carrier in the nuts.
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 08:21 pm Post Subject:
I just spoke with the Texas Department of Insurance (nice lady named Joe) and she said that unrelated prior damage is more than just a crease or dings from 15 years of driving - that's why they started with average.
If they started from perfect, then they could deduct any unrelated prior damage but given the car's age you still wouldn't deduct dollar for dollar.
She suggested that we file a complaint - she backs up what you have said - it's not that they're deducting for prior damage but how they're deducting it. Since all these things should already be accounted for by calling the vehicle average. If it was not average but fair or poor, they should not have labeled it that way.
How do I find out what the NADA of this vehicle is if it were perfect condition? It's a 1995 Nissan 240SX 5-speed with AC? Or does that really matter?
Also what would filing a complaint with the TDI really accomplish - can they do anything? There aren't any hard and fast rules, except if they refuse to pick up the salvage.
CC
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 09:18 pm Post Subject:
How do I find out what the NADA of this vehicle is if it were perfect condition? It's a 1995 Nissan 240SX 5-speed with AC? Or does that really matter?
NADA online will have the values in categories.... but even then, as it's been mentioned, those values already take into consideration that a vehicle that is 15 years old is not going to be in pristine condition. If it were, the value would be higher then NADA.Also what would filing a complaint with the TDI really accomplish - can they do anything?
To some degree, yes. The DOI can "recommend" that the carrier behave correctly in this regard. I'm betting that they can sanction the carrier but their _real_ power is to make a recommendation that the carrier behave correctly or they can walk into their office and start auditing files to see how many rules they have broken. Trust me... a carrier does _not_ want that to happen. It can add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars. What the DOI complaint also does is that it almost always (always?) kicks that file _way_ up the ladder. I mean _way_ up. That person can tend to worry more about the DOI's actions then saving $2000 on this one claim.Add your comment