by ToyotaDriver » Fri Jan 28, 2011 05:07 pm
My 2008 vehicle got sandblasted in a storm. The windshield is tough to see out of, especially in direct sunlight. I reported it to my insurance company and they told me to get an estimate. The body shop came back at over $10k, since not only is the windshield ruined, but the paint, chrome, headlights, side windows, etc. All pitted. Now the insurance company is saying they will require an 'independent' PDA estimate. What does that mean and what if that one is much less? For example I want an original quality windshield with a Toyota logo on it which costs three times more than a cheaper Chinese knockoff. How do I resolve it with the insurance company?
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 09:53 pm Post Subject:
first off, sorry to hear about your truck...mine is my baby, so i can feel your pain. hopefully i can shed some light for you and give you some food for thought.
your insurance company wants a second opinion, i don't blame them. sounds a bit high at first glance. they want to properly fix the truck, but the shop could be over estimating...why wouldn't they?
you have a right to put what ever parts you want on your car, however the insurance company can only pay based on how the policy you elected to buy is worded. Typically Like Kind and Quality (used parts off another 08') or Aftermarket (new other than Toytota) if these parts are safe and available.
Years ago Aftermarket parts were crap, today it's a lot different. But the stigma is still there. I'm not for ALL parts being aftermarket, but some are ok. Especially a windshield. CAPA certified aftermarket parts are guaranteed to perform and fit as good or better than OEM. You'd be surprised where the parts on your car come from anyway...ie probably a lot came from China and a host of other countries anyway.
Bumpers, lights, and other take off's should probably come from an '08 truck same as yours (LKQ) and have to be as good or better that the one's you had...so don't fret there. The windshield should come from a local glass company and will be aftermarket. Personally, good glass is good glass and there is very little difference other than paying for a logo...keep in mind most auto companies get their glass from suppliers anyway. But if you just feel you have to have it ordered from Toyota, you can pay the difference.
As far as the difference in estimates, I wouldn't worry about the difference; there's always differences. Your company will get an agreed price w/ the shop of your choice, just be concerned with the shop's ability to do quality work and your deductible. Let the insurance company hash out any price or labor discrepancies.
Food for thought, you can request an "appearance allowance" on damaged parts you may can live with to offset your deductible or out of pocket expenses. For example, if you can live with minor pits in the head lamps or bumper (chances are you have some anyway from normal use) ask the adjuster to credit 50% of the value of the lamps to your deductible, its a good deal for everybody. This is just an option that may be helpful.
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:58 pm Post Subject:
How did you know it was a truck? I never disclosed that.
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:21 pm Post Subject:
most toyota cars have painted bumpers, only the trucks have chrome bumpers ;-)
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:25 pm Post Subject:
You're good. ;)
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:29 pm Post Subject:
i try...lol. jk, these forums are a great way to share experience, but i'm here to learn as well. thanks for posting, hope you'll keep us posted on your progress...like to see how things turn out for you.
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:08 am Post Subject:
Yes, mbyork is good and that's why he's now a 'Preferred member'. We have a few good professionals and insurance consumers in our forums, who have seen it all. Please feel free to ask anything regarding your insurance.
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 06:36 pm Post Subject:
Years ago Aftermarket parts were crap, today it's a lot different. But the stigma is still there. I'm not for ALL parts being aftermarket, but some are ok. Especially a windshield. CAPA certified aftermarket parts are guaranteed to perform and fit as good or better than OEM. You'd be surprised where the parts on your car come from anyway...ie probably a lot came from China and a host of other countries anyway.
There is a reason that capa parts are referred to as crappa parts by most technicians and experts in the field of repair. They are better than bad parts from ten years ago, but nowhere near as good as original equipment parts with regard to sheetmetal, chrome plated plastic parts, structural supports (radiator and bumper), and fascias. I don't know maybe the people that claim they are as good as oem parts feel good about taking jobs away from american manufacturing and supporting indonesian and the chinese economy. We could probably keep ten steel plants in business for the amount of asian imitation tin that insurers claim they can specify and are equal in quality to the oem parts. In fact the entity that claims these parts are equal was created by many in the insurance industry to promote their cost savings benefits to stockholders not policyholders. If they wanted save policy holders money, they should cut down on all that silly advertising designed to make you feel cozy when you buy their policies.
Glass is a structural component of your vehicle. The quality of the glass, the bond of urethane, the humidity and the temperature are primary factors to consider when having glass installed. There are some manufacturers of glass such as pilkington, LOF, and PPG. that supply much of the glass to the original manufacturer. Be aware that there are several grades of glass and they are priced accordingly. Much of the glass on the market just as much of the aftermarket parts in the market are low quality. Speaking as one who buys and installs some aftermarket parts due to policy requirements and that is all some insurers will pay for, I am of the professional opinion that aftermarket parts still have a long way to go to achieve equality with oem parts.
There are ongoing issues with capa certified parts with regard to bumper and radiator support structural parts that have been shown to be unequal to the oem parts because they lack boron in the high strength steel that the original manufacturer designed into the vehicle to work in conjunction with air bag deployment. Just because a part looks the same and fits, does not make it equal. Many new vehicles are coming out with variations of high strength steel on the outer body parts and the after market people and insurers are pushing imitation parts that are not equivalent at all and have been proven not to be.
Check out these tests performed on aftermarket safety related parts from Fox news Atlanta http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/news/i-team-aftermarket-response-012011
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 05:33 am Post Subject:
Like I said, some are ok and aftermarket has come miles from what they used to be. Mike, I think we're of the same opinion. You kind of have to take each vehicle at a time and go by what needs to be done to safely repair.
Without the Magnuson Moss act allowing consumers to have a choice to buy from OEM competitors, auto manufactures would dictate parts pricing more than they do now. If you think cars and replacement parts are outrageous now, imagine if there was no competition. I like after market parts for some things, but regardless, insurance companies owe to put the car back in as good or better shape it was in prior to the loss. That can't always be done w/ aftermarket or LKQ.... but, sometimes it can...and in those cases it makes good sense to do so. again, depends a lot on the vehicle and what part is needed.
Safety should always be considered and be first priority in an adjusters appraisal. I-CAR does a great job in the collision repair industry testing and researching better ways for safe and proper repair procedures. I would make sure the shop I dealt with was I-CAR certified.
As stated, I'm more for using OEM/LKQ, but in defense of CAPA certified parts, I've have seen OEM parts have just as much or more difficulty w/ fit issues. Ask any body shop, GM fenders are some of the worst to try to line up and fit.
Personally, we typically only used aftermarket for bumper covers (rarely), lamps, fenders, hoods, radiator, condenser, and some suspension components...not to mention it was an option for our insured if they wanted aftermarket. Aftermarket was offered, but not required. LKQ however was required if available, but again, we could never force aftermarket. This is company specific though, so when shopping for those cheap auto rates, this is definitely something to talk about w/ your agent.
Mike, thanks for sharing the link. As it's important to have a good agent looking out for you for proper coverage, it's a good idea to have a trustworthy body shop looking out for you to properly repair your vehicle.
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 06:33 pm Post Subject:
As it's important to have a good agent looking out for you for proper coverage, it's a good idea to have a trustworthy body shop looking out for you to properly repair your vehicle.
Talking about opening up a proverbial can of worms, what is the criteria, in your professional opinion, as to who or what is a trustworthy bodyshop.
A. One who looks to the private contract of repair with the vehicle owner, as primary barring third party interference via a contract of indemnification the vehicle owner has with their insurer or as a result of a tort act of negligence with the insurer of at fault party who you do not have a contract with?
B. One who blindly follows the insurance estimate of loss as the blue print for repairs in which the shop becomes solely liable?
C.A shop that has entered into private agreements with an insurer to ensure that the insurers interests and stockholders interests are protected?
D.One that looks at the insurer and partner as their customer or one that serves solely as an advocate of the vehicle owner choosing not to interfere between a policy holder and their insurer but informs the shop's contracted customer and vehicle owner when there may be deficiencies and potential harm, loss of property value issues, and potential for conflicts between what an insurer desires, the state mandates (superior to the insurance contract provides for) when attempting to restore a vehicle under the manufacturers requirements as opposed to an insurer or policy requirements.
Guess which one of these shops draws the most ire from insurers and are targets for highly effectual steering tactics (illegal in many states) and are slandered by many agents and appraisers because they contradict the desires of one of the three parties involved? Is the insurance industry given the authority to exercise power to interfere with free competition and in violation of the sherman anti trust laws with regard to regulating price and market share with regard to the collision industry? Is it the business of insurance to indemnify and pay losses or to repair vehicles or to regulate an industry by interfering with parties that contract with each other but not the insurer?
Just wondering and thinking outloud.
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:27 pm Post Subject:
im sure there are all kinds of opinions, i tend to keep things simple. my viewpoint is from a consumer standpoint. when buying a car, home, insurance, doctor, or other areas that trust is an issues, most people like to deal with who they know or that thier friends know... choose through referral and do some basic research on that establishment. if a shop (or agent) has been in business a reasonable amount of time an thrives with most of his business coming from referrals, he's doing something right. a good business is run by ethical business practices and simply doing what is right by their customer. the rest will work itself out, in my experience anyway. my professional opinion would be to choose on a research and referral basis, but then again I live in a rural area...much of the business is done that way here.
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