by matthew1990 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 02:34 am
Great forum here folks. A couple questions; I'll try to stay as brief as I can.
1. Lady pulled out in front of me a week ago (Sunday), she was ticketed and has all fault. We have same carrier, full coverage. Will claims work for me as well as one would if it was another carrier? Both vehicles totalled. I have back, leg and other injuries, no breaks or stitches. 45 MPH almost head on.
2. Re: vehicle, I have been buying and selling classics and others for about 12 years so I will be as honest as possible with the description of my truck. '85 Toyota pick up 4x4, excellent condition. I know some will say I am sentimental and inflating the condition, but not true. 135k miles, purchased from original owner out of the garage he parked it in for 27 years. Absolutely original, uncut and unmolested. I get regular offers. Adjuster came out and first offer was 3500.00. I am online all the time and have found over 20 comps. Genuinely equal comps are 7200, that is mostly dealers, a few ebay and a few craigslist. Dealer only examples are 7700.00. These are true comps, the truck was awesomely nice. Question; why so low, are they not using fair market value at all. Also, son hit head on Easter Sunday. Same appraiser did his truck, oddly enough. His is '87 Toy. 4x4 and much rougher and he offered 3K for his, 165K miles. How can my near mint '85 be worth only 500 more than his fairly rough '87? Why the big difference? Thanks alot. M1990.
1. Lady pulled out in front of me a week ago (Sunday), she was ticketed and has all fault. We have same carrier, full coverage. Will claims work for me as well as one would if it was another carrier? Both vehicles totalled. I have back, leg and other injuries, no breaks or stitches. 45 MPH almost head on.
2. Re: vehicle, I have been buying and selling classics and others for about 12 years so I will be as honest as possible with the description of my truck. '85 Toyota pick up 4x4, excellent condition. I know some will say I am sentimental and inflating the condition, but not true. 135k miles, purchased from original owner out of the garage he parked it in for 27 years. Absolutely original, uncut and unmolested. I get regular offers. Adjuster came out and first offer was 3500.00. I am online all the time and have found over 20 comps. Genuinely equal comps are 7200, that is mostly dealers, a few ebay and a few craigslist. Dealer only examples are 7700.00. These are true comps, the truck was awesomely nice. Question; why so low, are they not using fair market value at all. Also, son hit head on Easter Sunday. Same appraiser did his truck, oddly enough. His is '87 Toy. 4x4 and much rougher and he offered 3K for his, 165K miles. How can my near mint '85 be worth only 500 more than his fairly rough '87? Why the big difference? Thanks alot. M1990.
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 02:39 am Post Subject:
Sorry, last question should be why the SMALL difference in assessed value? Thanks.
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 05:00 am Post Subject:
Matthew . . .
There are a couple of very important things you need to know and understand about auto insurance. First, the amount you are entitled to recover for your totaled vehicle is Actual Cash Value (ACV), which is the Replacement Cost minus depreciation. An adjuster looking at your vehicle does not see a collector or classic vehicle, he sees one that is more than 25 years old. If you did not know the history of the vehicle, what would YOU say a 25 year old Toyota 4x4 pickup truck was worth?
Second, if you believed your vehicle was a "collector" or "classic" item, you needed very different coverage than a Personal Auto Policy, which is apparently what we are discussing. That insurance is not available in the "standard" market -- it is a "surplus lines" policy . . . which actually makes it less expensive in most cases, since collector or classic cars are driven less often, and at more prudent speeds -- after all, the owner has a great deal of pride wrapped up in his vehicle (as is apparent in your post).
You cannot effectively make comparisons between your vehicle and others like it, as a collector or classic, because it is not insured as such. You can, obviously, argue for the highest value the insurance company will agree to, which might be $1000 more, in recognition of the "low" mileage (a 25 year old vehicle, with only 10,000 miles driven per year would have more than 250,000 miles on the odometer).
Now, here's the good news: you may have a legitimate Errors and Omissions claim against your agent (assuming you did not go the "do it yourself" route in obtaining insurance on the vehicle) for negligently obtaining the wrong form of coverage.
An agent who understands cars and classics or collectors would have shopped your insurance in a completely different manner, and probably obtained a "stated value" policy for you -- in which case you and the insurance company would have agreed on a value for the vehicle based on how it was stored, how much/often it was driven, and where it was driven. In the event of a total loss, as you suffered, the insurance company would have written a check for the stated amount, no questions asked.
The difference between what the PAP insurer pays and what a specialty policy would have paid is what you could attempt to sue the agent for. It would most likely be a Small Claims Court matter, since the difference is $3,000-$4,000 (plus a few dollars for the excess premium you probably paid).
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:45 pm Post Subject:
Thanks MaxHerr. My agent did not shop my insurance at all. I did not get other insurance. My agent is very aware of my hobby and I have talked with her on other occasions about wishing State Farm would offer different insurance for classics or verifiably higher value older vehicles. I even asked if I should get an appraisal. I am contacting adjuster today with a fax of comps he requested. I guess an extra grand will help, but I think I am going to take a beating on this situation. Should I address this "omissions" thing with my agent? I am not going to fool myself and think that I will get the avg of the comps(which is 7200.00) but 5K or 6K would sure help me rebuild it, which I will do. I think I will look for another agent that will go the proverbial "extra mile" for me because I don't think the one I have now has that mentality. Her staff is very efficient, which I like, but in hind sight I wish the agent would have helped me more. I am making a counter offer for truck today, with a letter and 12 legit comps. Is one more offer back from them all I should expect? The adjuster basically asked me for these comps and to plead my case in not so many words. Shifting gears; is twice medical and lost wages what I can expect from other adjuster handling medical? I am a professional firefighter and 50 and my back is going to haunt me in the future I am sure. Also, is lost OT and lost sick days considered lost wages? Thank you very much for any help.
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 07:05 pm Post Subject:
This is not insurance you can get from State Farm or any of the "mainstream" auto insurance companies. Those agents should be intelligent AND PROFESSIONAL enough to say, "We don't have what you need," and not sell you something which is inadequate for your situation.
You should sue the agent for the full collector value of the vehicle, and not a penny less. Most State Farm agents are "captives" and the company covers them for their Errors & Omissions. Obviously, they will fight you on the claim of negligence, but you should be able to establish your claim with a variety of third-party source material. If your vehicle has collector value of $7500, don't just ask for $5000 or $6000. Demand the full $7500! (Whatever they pay for damages under the standard policies will be an offset against what you receive as a judgment for the E&O claim -- you can't have both.)
The #1 source for Collector and Classic Car insurance is Haggerty. http://www.hagerty.com/Collector-car-insurance/Auto-insurance-overview They know the business, and many of their agents are collectors themselves, so they understand the needs of collectors. You might even find the same coverage from them for less than what you were paying State Farm -- assuming you were not driving the vehicle on a daily basis.
You probably cannot press a claim for lost OT -- unless you have a contract that guarantees a certain amount of OT on a regular basis. Not sure what you mean by "lost sick days" -- are you saying that because you were off work, you lost additional accrued time off? Again, you can't make a claim for what you didn't get, only for what you actually lost (uncompensated time off or, possibly for having to use vacation time to cover lost time after sick days were exhausted -- thereby being forced to give up your vacation time).
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 07:36 pm Post Subject:
Lost sick time means I am using sick days because of the accident that I would have not used normally. I get paid for my accrued sick days upon my retirement.
Hate to sound dumb but do I simply approach my agent with the negligence issue or someone else? I obviously have not done this before.
I faxed the adjuster the comps he requested. He said the ebay and Craigslist are not good examples but they would look at them. He said to get him dealer comps, so I did and they actually are higher than ebay and craigs. So I am waiting on how he handles that situation. Very respectful on both sides so far. This is an extra vehicle so I am in in no hurry. Bottom line is I am hoping that between truck settlement and medical and whatever small amount I get for P and S, I can fix my truck properly. My son and I can make it right, I would like to stay out of my checkbook. Thanks.
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 02:53 am Post Subject:
Lost sick time means I am using sick days because of the accident that I would have not used normally.
Generally speaking, the court will not compensate you for this. If you had not used your sick time, then you could have been compensated for it, and if you could have demonstrated that on certain of those days, due to firefighting responsibilities, would have worked overtime (documented by the records of your coworkers on the shifts in question), you might have been able to persuade the court to also compensate you for lost overtime wages.
You can't be compensated for the "potential" of accrued sick time because who's to say you might have to use them to pay for a non-work-related illness or injury before you retire, and would have "lost" the days/hours anyway.
Now, as far as dealing with the agent, out of courtesy, you should meet with her and discuss your situation -- that she failed to obtain the proper coverage for your vehicle.
But, first you should look at the Haggerty website and/or talk to someone at Haggerty about what kind of coverage they could have provided and the cost (if your vehicle qualified). That gives you a starting point for the discussion with the State Farm agent.
Now, armed with insight and information, you can say, "If you had referred me to Haggerty, here's what I would have had, what it might have cost, and what it would have meant in this situation. Your adjuster is offering me half of that. I need you to make up the other half. You can write me a check today, or you can meet me in court, and probably have to write me a larger check later."
Then see what happens.
Can you really restore a vehicle that suffered a 45mph head on hit -- and make it roadworthy?
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 03:55 am Post Subject:
Thanks. Yes, we can. It will be totalled of course, with frame damage. We will have frame straightened, then find a donor truck for the front cap(inner and outer fenders, hood, all grill, bumper , radiator support and all lights). All we will pay for is frame work, parts and then an alignment, we will build the truck back ourselves.That is how nice this truck is. The engine and tranny are near perfect condition. dash and everything rear of that is still great. Remember, ironically my 21 yr old son was hit head on by two guys racing on Easter this year in his '87 Toyota 4x4 and we repaired his and he drives it everyday. It drives and rides like it was never wrecked. His frame was bent also. Its been a weird year when a father and son both get hit head on in like vehicles and other persons fault, and same adjuster came to assess the damage. Thanks again. This is a great site and wish I would have found it sooner. I have probably spent 5 hours on here since the accident.
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:44 pm Post Subject:
Well, I agreed on a settlement. I negotiated the best I could on the second conversation with the claims guy and got him to 6K, up from the original 3500. Based on all the info and advice and what I was willing to do, I feel pretty good about it. State Farm said they do not offer the kind of insurance where I and the agent could agree on a value, and then sign a policy. Time to rebuild truck and wait on the medical side of it.
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:35 am Post Subject:
Good for you -- that's a 71.4% increase! When you're ready to insure the rebuilt truck, be sure to contact Haggerty for your coverage. You won't be disappointed.
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 03:19 am Post Subject:
Thanks for the help and suggestions Max, I am loving this forum.
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