by Guest » Fri Aug 23, 2013 05:48 am
This is a recent update to my other posts involving the same accident.
I feel my "Total Loss"
Can I sue my auto insurer in small claims court in a first p
Insurer now agrees they undervalued my Total Loss vehicle.
For the last 3 1/2 years I've been disputing their valuation of my Total Loss Claim.
I even filed a complaint with CDI and they still didn't waver from their position stating they paid a fair settlement. After my persistence of climbing the ladder of Supervisors, I finally got one to hear my argument. Make no mistake, it wasn't easy. All the tricks were pulled hoping I'd go away. They believed it was a fair settlement and It wouldn't have matter if I produced 1 million comps. to substantiate a bigger payout...they weren't budging.
The conversation went like this .....
Insurer:
Yes, I know you ran reports on all 47 cars and I know your vehicle was in excellent condition. But we paid you more than what both KBB and NADA valued your car at so I can’t substantiate paying out any more.
Insured:
You acknowledge my vehicle to be in excellent condition….
Insurer:
Yes
Insured:
If my vehicle is in excellent condition, then why am I being paid for an average condition, shouldn’t I be paid amongst the top of the pay scale and not the average?
Insurer:
Huhh...You have a good point. I never thought of it that way. Let me see what I can do. What figure did you have in mind?
I told insurer that I wasn’t quite sure and that I wanted to send over my vehicle history reports on all the cars and Insurer said to send the information ASAP.
I tried to send it but it was so much info. that it blew up my mailbox and returned it undeliverable. I then transferred all the info. onto a 2 page report using the 2 pages CCC used and just added my columns and info. to it such as corrections in reported trim package, auto check grades, # of owners, previous accidents, frame damage, auction vehicles, rental use, liens etc.
I also was going to send 3 different methods of valuation calculations
A. Top 10% CCC averaged equates to a difference of $ 2,144.00.
B. Insured’s Comparables equates to a difference of $ 2,769.00.
C. Cost Of Repair / 70% = Value equates to a difference of $ 2,949.00.
Average of A+B+C = difference of $ 2,620.00
My licence fee was omitted in original payoff which equates to $99.00 for proportionate share. ($103.00/365=$.28x352). They said they didn’t include it because my reg. was expired at the time which wasn’t true. However, it was incomplete. It was paid but still needed smog cert. which I was driving to my smog appt. when the accident happened.
Before I could send them my info. they called and offered me $1,200.00. They said it’s the absolute best they do and since it has been so long they legally don’t owe me anything at all that I had only 1 or 2 years at the most to dispute. However, they are willing to give me an extra $1,200.00 because they feel it’s the right thing to do. They picked a car in the report that didn’t have a VIN # and said they thought mine was close to it and that’s how they got the $1,200.00.
I told them I wanted to think about it and look up the car they were using. He said ok to let him know and reiterated that they legally have no obligation to pay me now since it happened too long ago. He said I should have disputed it a long time ago but didn’t and they never received any comps from me.
I replied telling him I have disputed it the entire time and did send comps.. He even acknowledged my FAX disputing the valuation in his response to me from the CDI which that FAX contained my comps. (Perhaps they didn’t read all 17 pages sent.)
He said there’s no way I ever sent anything as they have a very sophisticated scanning system and if I had sent anything it would have been in the file and there isn’t.
Since my goal is to settle this I decided not to get in a debate because it wouldn’t be productive I didn’t think.
Anyway, offer on the table is a verbal $1,200.00.
My actual expenses by far exceed this amount. (car Fax reports $45, autocheck reports $60, NADA report $30) I had to fly to Oregon from Ca. to pick up my moms car because I didn’t have enough money to replace mine. Countless hours in research and fighting Insurer for 3.5 years.
PLUS I was sent to collections and had to fight Collection Agency because my Insurer had not paid the repair shops supplemental bill for the rental car I rear-ended. Collection Agency said they were going after me since they got no response from my Insurer. Insurer finally paid but I’m not sure since I notified them to stop contacting me and to contact my Insurer only.
I feel the $1,200.00 is still short of the actual value based on the 3 different methods illustrated above. I also believe that I should be compensated something for having to fight them so hard and for so long in addition to interest on that money. The ripple effect of fighting this battle has caused problems at home, been very depressing, and has been very emotionally draining.
I’m open and appreciative of any suggestions of how to handle it from here. What would you do?
My apologies for the extremely long post. I just didn’t want to leave any facts out.
Thank you for your patience and thank you for your time.
I feel my "Total Loss"
Can I sue my auto insurer in small claims court in a first p
Insurer now agrees they undervalued my Total Loss vehicle.
For the last 3 1/2 years I've been disputing their valuation of my Total Loss Claim.
I even filed a complaint with CDI and they still didn't waver from their position stating they paid a fair settlement. After my persistence of climbing the ladder of Supervisors, I finally got one to hear my argument. Make no mistake, it wasn't easy. All the tricks were pulled hoping I'd go away. They believed it was a fair settlement and It wouldn't have matter if I produced 1 million comps. to substantiate a bigger payout...they weren't budging.
The conversation went like this .....
Insurer:
Yes, I know you ran reports on all 47 cars and I know your vehicle was in excellent condition. But we paid you more than what both KBB and NADA valued your car at so I can’t substantiate paying out any more.
Insured:
You acknowledge my vehicle to be in excellent condition….
Insurer:
Yes
Insured:
If my vehicle is in excellent condition, then why am I being paid for an average condition, shouldn’t I be paid amongst the top of the pay scale and not the average?
Insurer:
Huhh...You have a good point. I never thought of it that way. Let me see what I can do. What figure did you have in mind?
I told insurer that I wasn’t quite sure and that I wanted to send over my vehicle history reports on all the cars and Insurer said to send the information ASAP.
I tried to send it but it was so much info. that it blew up my mailbox and returned it undeliverable. I then transferred all the info. onto a 2 page report using the 2 pages CCC used and just added my columns and info. to it such as corrections in reported trim package, auto check grades, # of owners, previous accidents, frame damage, auction vehicles, rental use, liens etc.
I also was going to send 3 different methods of valuation calculations
A. Top 10% CCC averaged equates to a difference of $ 2,144.00.
B. Insured’s Comparables equates to a difference of $ 2,769.00.
C. Cost Of Repair / 70% = Value equates to a difference of $ 2,949.00.
Average of A+B+C = difference of $ 2,620.00
My licence fee was omitted in original payoff which equates to $99.00 for proportionate share. ($103.00/365=$.28x352). They said they didn’t include it because my reg. was expired at the time which wasn’t true. However, it was incomplete. It was paid but still needed smog cert. which I was driving to my smog appt. when the accident happened.
Before I could send them my info. they called and offered me $1,200.00. They said it’s the absolute best they do and since it has been so long they legally don’t owe me anything at all that I had only 1 or 2 years at the most to dispute. However, they are willing to give me an extra $1,200.00 because they feel it’s the right thing to do. They picked a car in the report that didn’t have a VIN # and said they thought mine was close to it and that’s how they got the $1,200.00.
I told them I wanted to think about it and look up the car they were using. He said ok to let him know and reiterated that they legally have no obligation to pay me now since it happened too long ago. He said I should have disputed it a long time ago but didn’t and they never received any comps from me.
I replied telling him I have disputed it the entire time and did send comps.. He even acknowledged my FAX disputing the valuation in his response to me from the CDI which that FAX contained my comps. (Perhaps they didn’t read all 17 pages sent.)
He said there’s no way I ever sent anything as they have a very sophisticated scanning system and if I had sent anything it would have been in the file and there isn’t.
Since my goal is to settle this I decided not to get in a debate because it wouldn’t be productive I didn’t think.
Anyway, offer on the table is a verbal $1,200.00.
My actual expenses by far exceed this amount. (car Fax reports $45, autocheck reports $60, NADA report $30) I had to fly to Oregon from Ca. to pick up my moms car because I didn’t have enough money to replace mine. Countless hours in research and fighting Insurer for 3.5 years.
PLUS I was sent to collections and had to fight Collection Agency because my Insurer had not paid the repair shops supplemental bill for the rental car I rear-ended. Collection Agency said they were going after me since they got no response from my Insurer. Insurer finally paid but I’m not sure since I notified them to stop contacting me and to contact my Insurer only.
I feel the $1,200.00 is still short of the actual value based on the 3 different methods illustrated above. I also believe that I should be compensated something for having to fight them so hard and for so long in addition to interest on that money. The ripple effect of fighting this battle has caused problems at home, been very depressing, and has been very emotionally draining.
I’m open and appreciative of any suggestions of how to handle it from here. What would you do?
My apologies for the extremely long post. I just didn’t want to leave any facts out.
Thank you for your patience and thank you for your time.
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 01:15 pm Post Subject:
I feel the $1,200.00 is still short of the actual value based on the 3 different methods illustrated above. I also believe that I should be compensated something for having to fight them so hard and for so long in addition to interest on that money.
Are they correct, has the statute of limitations on written contracts run? I don't know of any state that only allows 1 or 2 years to file suit on a written contract.
I doubt they owe all of those other charges you mentioned. Some are not even related to this dispute. If you are of the frame of mind that the insurance company should pay more on the vehicle to compensate for those things you mentioned then you probably won't be able to settle.
It's been 3 1/2 years of your arguing that they are not paying enough and when they ask you for the amount you feel they owe you don't know?
My recommendation would be that 2 years ago you should have obtained all of your supporting documents and filed suit in small claims court. You need to see this from the insurance companies point of view. You are 1 of 10,000 claims. They have settled your case and have moved on. Why should they be giving you the time of day? If you felt you had a good case why not simply file in small claims court? If you are not willing to do that, why should they do much of anything. That is their take on this... like it or not.
If you file in small claims court then you file for Breach of Contract. At that point you can attempt to add in all of your expenses and also punitive damages. I don't recall the details but I think they paid you the undisputed amount. If this is the case then I doubt you'd get punitive damages or much more then the actual value of the vehicle. But filing in small claims court would mean that the insurance company would need to pay an attorney to defend. They might be more receptive to paying more on your claim instead. Of course they could also call your bluff and pay out $5,000 in defense costs to save $2000 on the claim.
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 03:53 pm Post Subject: How do I write a letter to insurer without pizzing him off?
Are they correct, has the statute of limitations on written contracts run? I don't know of any state that only allows 1 or 2 years to file suit on a written contract.
It is my understanding that it is 4 years for written contract in my state being California.
I doubt they owe all of those other charges you mentioned. Some are not even related to this dispute. If you are of the frame of mind that the insurance company should pay more on the vehicle to compensate for those things you mentioned then you probably won't be able to settle.
My mindset is I want a fair settlement nothing more nothing less. I included those other expenses in my post just for illustration purposes. Just like CCC Valuescope's Market Valuation states:
These allowances are illustrative only.
My vehicle was 10 years old with only 35,000 miles and was given a condition allowance of $200 so therefore I believe my payoff should be amongst the top 10% of their scale of comps.It's been 3 1/2 years of your arguing that they are not paying enough and when they ask you for the amount you feel they owe you don't know?
I wasn't able to answer that question because I didn't know if I'm entitled to interest and any compensation for my time, trouble, emotional distress and inconvenience having to fight them. My position has been the same the entire time, but this supervisor finally heard me. Besides they already know as it was in my complaint to CDI. $3,000.
If you felt you had a good case why not simply file in small claims court?
I will if necessary and I think I will win. I'm hoping not to have to resort to that because I liked the company and wanted to continue our business relationship if possible.
Of course they could also call your bluff
I'm not bluffing. I'm very angry they have cost me so much valuable time having to fight them when it's an undeniable fact in life that average only buys average.
Am I entitled to interest or inconvenience etc? What is the best tone to use when responding to my Insurer. I have yet to be able to replace my car because I refuse to have to come out of pocket to buy a substandard replacement with 2x the mileage and wear and tear and smaller engine like my adjuster told me I was expected to do.
Thank you for your time and my apologies again for the long post.
Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 04:17 pm Post Subject:
My actual expenses by far exceed this amount. (car Fax reports $45, autocheck reports $60, NADA report $30) I had to fly to Oregon from Ca. to pick up my moms car because I didn’t have enough money to replace mine. Countless hours in research and fighting Insurer for 3.5 years.
PLUS I was sent to collections and had to fight Collection Agency because my Insurer had not paid the repair shops supplemental bill for the rental car I rear-ended. Collection Agency said they were going after me since they got no response from my Insurer. Insurer finally paid but I’m not sure since I notified them to stop contacting me and to contact my Insurer only.
Now you've crossed the line from the disputed value of your vehicle to compensatory damages. The former is what you are owed, the latter is what you would have to argue about in civil court.
You cannot be compensated for having to fly up to Oregon to "pick up your Mom's car" and you cannot be compensated for spending money to buy CarFax, NADA or Autocheck reports . . . not as part of your claim for the total loss to your vehicle. These are all "damages" unrelated to the collision. If you want that money, you are going to have to sue them for it.
They said it’s the absolute best they do and since it has been so long they legally don’t owe me anything at all that I had only 1 or 2 years at the most to dispute.
I don't know when your collision occurred, but if any time later than Aug 23, 2009, now that's a violation of the Unfair Claims Practices Act. You have to be given written notice of the impending expiration of the SOL, which is four years from the date of the loss in CA, and the insurance company cannot misrepresent that information to you.Unfortunately, only the Insurance Commissioner can take action against an insurance company for that. You can use it as evidence of bad faith in the settlement of your claim, but you cannot use it as a "cause of action" for bad faith. You can, and should, file a complaint with the CDI about the insurance company's handling of your claim -- the Commissioner needs to know about that, but would probably never find out without a complaint. http://www.insurance.ca.gov/contact-us/0200-file-complaint/
This is the main problem when claimants lose sight of the reason for their claim. Instead of sticking to facts, the emotional side suddenly creeps into things. Sure, you spent money to do the things you did, but you were not forced to do that because of the collision. That you have persisted for 3-1/2 years is to your credit, but obviously you've handled it all wrong from the beginning.
Of all the things you've written here, this is the least believable of all. Of course you have a number in mind, otherwise you would not have said your comparables were $2769. You "blinked" and gave them the advantage.What figure did you have in mind? I told insurer that I wasn’t quite sure
Don't misunderstand, I'm not taking sides with the insurance company, but we only have your version of their side to rely on. There could be other reasons for their failure to meet your demand. But it should not have taken this long to discuss and compromise over the value of a vehicle . . . especially when that amount is less than $3000.
You also don't have much of a case for an attorney to want to take -- no scathing issues here worth five or six zeros and a comma or two. What will there be to collect a 33.33% fee on? $3,000 = $1,000 . . . he/she blows that on office rent in a week or two. What's left to pay for the yacht in the marina?
You want $2769, the insurance company says they'll give you $1200. That's a difference of $1569. Tell them you'll take $2000 and be done with it all. If that's not fair or equitable, I'm sorry. You have to consider it the cost of learning how to properly handle a claim, which I'm not convinced you have completely mastered.
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