by Guest » Thu Nov 14, 2013 03:23 am
Hello everyone,
Last week I got rear-ended at a red light and then hit the car in front of me. The other person was 100% at fault, my insurance declared the car totaled and now I am going through the painful process of dealing with the low-balling.
I just received an estimate from the insurance company where they listed 3 cars as comps, 2 of them were valued at about 6K while the third, conveniently, was valued at 4K, 75 miles away but not in-state. This last car is from New Jersey which has very different requirements for inspections/safety than Philadelphia which is where I live. It of course pissed me off to see that, clearly done to bring down the valuation.
I asked the adjuster to take it out and his answer was "it came up with the report" being in a 75 mile radius. We got disconnected without reaching an agreement so before I call again/put it in writing I wanted to get some more opinions.
Is there anything in the insurance code to make them remove the 3rd car and just base their valuation on the other 2 cars? What is the best way to go about this? FYI: Jersey doesn't require any safety inspection and emissions every 2 years. Pennsylvania on the other hand requires yearly safety and emissions. So technically a car drivable in Jersey might not cut it here.
Many thanks!
Last week I got rear-ended at a red light and then hit the car in front of me. The other person was 100% at fault, my insurance declared the car totaled and now I am going through the painful process of dealing with the low-balling.
I just received an estimate from the insurance company where they listed 3 cars as comps, 2 of them were valued at about 6K while the third, conveniently, was valued at 4K, 75 miles away but not in-state. This last car is from New Jersey which has very different requirements for inspections/safety than Philadelphia which is where I live. It of course pissed me off to see that, clearly done to bring down the valuation.
I asked the adjuster to take it out and his answer was "it came up with the report" being in a 75 mile radius. We got disconnected without reaching an agreement so before I call again/put it in writing I wanted to get some more opinions.
Is there anything in the insurance code to make them remove the 3rd car and just base their valuation on the other 2 cars? What is the best way to go about this? FYI: Jersey doesn't require any safety inspection and emissions every 2 years. Pennsylvania on the other hand requires yearly safety and emissions. So technically a car drivable in Jersey might not cut it here.
Many thanks!
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:11 am Post Subject:
Pennsylvania on the other hand requires yearly safety and emissions. So technically a car drivable in Jersey might not cut it here.
This is not entirely material unless you want them to buy that car for you as a replacement. It would be their responsibility to make it compliant with PA motor vehicle law.You don't mention what type of vehicle you were driving, and you can go to www.NADAguides.com and check for comparable prices there, which should be more reliable.
First, however, are you dealing with your insurance company or the at-fault party's insurance company? You should not be dealing with your insurance company!
If dealing with the at-fault party's insurance company, and you cannot reach an agreement, then you simply sue the at-fault party in small claims court for the value you can document (PA limit is $12,000+court costs). If you win, then the at-fault party's insurer will pay the loss up to the policy limit of liability, and any excess will be the responsibility of the at-fault party.
The only reason to deal with your insurance company is to possibly expedite the claim. They should not be low-balling you, because they will recover their loss from the other insurer.
If you can get along without an auto for a couple of months, or can afford to replace your loss with your own funds, then you don't have to worry about being pressed to accept a lower than expected value.
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 03:00 am Post Subject:
Thanks MaxHerr for your reply!
This is not entirely material unless you want them to buy that car for you as a replacement. It would be their responsibility to make it compliant with PA motor vehicle law.
Well the way I see it, for an older car (mine was 1999 Honda CR-V) safety & emissions become more important. So a car that is OK to drive and sell in NJ, may not be drivable/acceptable in PA since we have the stricter licensing rules. So my lost car was not in NJ, it was in PA, so the car was in line with the PA requirements for safety and emissions. The car that they quoted from NJ, is suspiciously $2000 less than the other 2 PA cars. To me that is not comparing apples to apples, it's comparing apples to lemons. I could understand them doing this if there were no other cars in the local area BUT they already have 2 cars to arrive at an average, why the need for the 3rd especially outside the state.
First, however, are you dealing with your insurance company or the at-fault party's insurance company? You should not be dealing with your insurance company!
I am dealing with my insurance company and have full coverage both ways. The reason why I am dealing with them is because I thought being that they will recoup the expenses from the other party, they would be on my side. To my surprise that hasn't been the case so far. Can't imagine the treatment if I was at fault!
Do you see any problem if I try to work it out with my insurance and then if I don't come to an agreement with them to sue the other party/work with other insurance?
Btw: I am in no rush to settle. I have already come to the conclusion that I'll be without a car for a couple of months either way. Insurance companies seem to think that you should just turn around and buy another car in a week (based on how long they allow use of rental).
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 04:07 am Post Subject:
The car that they quoted from NJ, is suspiciously $2000 less than the other 2 PA cars. To me that is not comparing apples to apples
You have to make sure the vehicles are comparably equipped and that the mileage is also similar. That could easily account for the big difference. I don't believe the safety requirements issue is responsible for $2,000 in price differential -- it's not going to be identified as a valuation line item.Do you see any problem if I try to work it out with my insurance
No, except that you might have better luck with the other party's insurance company because they don't want you taking their client to court and being stuck with a larger than anticipated loss.I would put your insurance company on the back burner and open a claim with the other party's insurance company -- they are probably waiting for it anyway.
how long they allow use of rental
Understand that your insurance company, if you have rental coverage, will terminate that coverage if the make you an offer they believe is reasonable, and in no event more than 30 days from the first day of the rental. Because of their insured's negligence, the other insurance company is stuck, however, with the full cost of your rental until they make a reasonable offer that should be accepted.Now, with a third vehicle involved, you're possibly up against the property damage liability limit of the at-fault party's coverage. You will be in a better position to exhaust that person's coverage and make a claim with your insurance company under your uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage if you have that, remembering, however, that any recovery from the personal funds of the at-fault party would diminish the amount payable under UM coverage (or repaid to your insurer after the fact).
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 05:01 am Post Subject:
Sorry for all the questions, after all the research/reading I have been doing for the past couple of days, it seems there is still so much to know.
Really appreciate your valuable information!
Now, with a third vehicle involved, you're possibly up against the property damage liability limit of the at-fault party's coverage. You will be in a better position to exhaust that person's coverage and make a claim with your insurance company under your uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage
I am glad you brought this up because I didn't even think/know that the maximum would be per accident vs. each car hit.
So this raises a few more questions for me:
1. How do I get the details of the at-fault party's insurance coverage? Would the other insurance give me that if I called and requested it?
2. In the event that I would need to use my insurance for an UM, would that mean that my premiums would go up because my insurance would pay out of pocket?
3. If I decided to pursue the other insurance now for the property loss claim, would I still be able to sue them later for medical bills, pain/suffering if things get worse? I have soft tissue injuries and ongoing headaches (that actually haven't been getting any better but hoping that with time will go away), but in the event that something creeps up later I wouldn't want to be on the hook for medical bills etc later on. Sorry for my ignorance -been driving for 2 decades and this is the first time I am dealing with this and so wish I didn't have to!
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 05:23 am Post Subject:
Would the other insurance give me that if I called and requested it?
Maybe, maybe not. NJ minimum property damage is $5000 per accident, PA is the same.So your $6,000 loss is already over the minimum limit. Could the driver have $10,000 or more? Who knows. That's why you pay for UM coverage.
would that mean that my premiums would go up because my insurance would pay out of pocket?
Absolutely not. Your premiums would go up if your risk of being involved in another collision at your fault goes up.If I decided to pursue the other insurance now for the property loss claim, would I still be able to sue them later for medical bills, pain/suffering if things get worse?
Property losses are settled independently of personal injury losses -- two different forms of coverage. PI losses are indefinite and can take months to come to a conclusion (physical therapy, etc). Property losses are immediate and definite.Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 02:17 am Post Subject:
So your $6,000 loss is already over the minimum limit. Could the driver have $10,000 or more? Who knows. That's why you pay for UM coverage.
Contacted the other party's insurance, they wouldn't disclose their client's liability limits. Also looked into my UM coverage and in PA it covers only bodily injury so doesn't apply to property damage.
So here is my dilemma, I understand that since the car ACV is already higher than the other party's coverage (assuming they have the minimum $5000 liability coverage), my collision coverage would be responsible to reimburse me for the remaining car value. But what happens to the rest of the expenses? For example, rental. I am only being given 10 days of rental coverage from my insurance so I was planning on getting a rental and then requesting reimbursement from other insurance but if the liability is already maxed just with the car value, where would I get the rest from?
Does it make a difference if I construct the claim such that my collision coverage pays for the car but then I submit a claim with the other insurance for the rest of the expenses?
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 04:53 am Post Subject:
You previously wrote:
I am dealing with my insurance company and have full coverage both ways.
Now you write:
Also looked into my UM coverage and in PA it covers only bodily injury so doesn't apply to property damage.
You must not have purchased UMPD, which is available in PA. If you have an agent who helped you with your insurance and did not recommend UMPD, you may have an "Errors & Omissions" claim against his/her professional liability policy.if the liability is already maxed just with the car value, where would I get the rest from?
From the same person who failed to carry enough insurance to cover the loss he cause to you and the other driver.Does it make a difference if I construct the claim such that my collision coverage pays for the car but then I submit a claim with the other insurance for the rest of the expenses?
You do this only one way or the other.Either you process the entire claim with your insurance company or you process the entire claim with the at fault party's insurance company. You cannot walk on both sides of the street at the same time.
If you do not believe the other party has sufficient coverage to handle your loss, then process the claim through your insurance company and sue the at-fault party for any damages your company does not cover, like more than ten days of rental reimbursement. As long as you are not suing for the same damages your insurance company pays, you will not be required to reimburse your insurance company.
If you win your suit, you still have to collect. If there is remaining capacity in the at-fault party's liability limits, his insurance company will pay that loss, as long as he has notified them of the suit prior to going to court.
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 05:24 am Post Subject:
So here is my dilemma, I understand that since the car ACV is already higher than the other party's coverage (assuming they have the minimum $5000 liability coverage), my collision coverage would be responsible to reimburse me for the remaining car value
That's incorrect. You can only file with one carrier. If you were to file with the other person's then they would have you sign a release for their insured's limits. This means that your carrier could not longer collect from the at fault person. According to your policy you can't jeopardize your carriers right of recovery so your carrier would deny you coverage. If the other person's limits are not enough to address your loss, then you file with your carrier. You carrier then collects what they can from the other person's carrier and calls it a day.
For example, rental. I am only being given 10 days of rental coverage from my insurance so I was planning on getting a rental and then requesting reimbursement from other insurance but if the liability is already maxed just with the car value, where would I get the rest from?
You submit your out of pocket demand (rental, deductible, etc) to the other carrier. But to make things easy, ask your carrier if PA is a Made Whole state. That is, you need to be made whole before your carriers gets one penny. If this is the case then just let your carrier collect the policy limits and then your just give your carrier your out of pocket expenses so that they can first pay you.
But I doubt the other person's limits are not enough to address your loss. If they were, the carrier would have mentioned this.
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 09:12 pm Post Subject:
Learning new things by the day here. Thanks everyone!
You submit your out of pocket demand (rental, deductible, etc) to the other carrier. But to make things easy, ask your carrier if PA is a Made Whole state. That is, you need to be made whole before your carriers gets one penny. If this is the case then just let your carrier collect the policy limits and then your just give your carrier your out of pocket expenses so that they can first pay you.
So, PA is a made-whole state though it looks like this doesn't really apply to the deductible (doesn't affect me much, I have the lowest deductible coverage).
So just so I understand the process, I submit the claim for car damage with my insurance and then while this is settling or it might be settled already, I can submit another claim with my insurance for out of pocket expenses?
For rental coverage, is there a set # of days that they usually provide reimbursement for rental or loss of use allowance or is it up to the day I get another car?
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 09:39 pm Post Subject:
If the other person's limits are not an issue then none of this really applies.. and I see no good indication that the limits are an issue. If that is the case then you need to determine who you will file with, the other person's carrier or your own.
If you file with the other person's carrier then it's not complicated.
If you file with your carrier then you also ask the other carrier to consider your our of pocket expenses as well. You put them on notice of this by send them a letter and explaining that you have those expenses and will submit them. The other carrier pays your carrier and they also pay you.
Rental is usually paid until an offer to settle is made. The offer may be incorrect or not what is finally agreed to but it puts an end to the rental. Most carriers will consider a few extra days beyond that. I'd certainly recommending that you ask for a few extra days. They owe you "Loss of Use" from the time the vehicle is not in use until the offer is made. You can base this amount on what a rental car would cost.
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