by boxlot_vt » Mon Sep 29, 2014 07:58 pm
U.P.S. has a recent warehouse fire, they informed the company that sold me the items, the package was burned in the fire. The company that sold me the goods informed me that they do not want to make waves with UPS and are only asking for the cash value of the items. Should I ask my insurance company to contact UPS and ask for the difference between the cash value and replacement value. any advice in this matter would be greatly appreciated best wishes
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:23 pm Post Subject:
First, not an auto insurance question. Second, not really an insurance question at all. Your insurance company is not your attorney or even your representative in daily matters. You can attempt to file a claim with your property carrier and see if they will pay for your loss. If they do, they will pay less your deductible and then attempt to collect from the at-fault party. But they won't do anything unless they pay out.
I'm confused as I don't understand why there is a difference between the cash value of the item and the replacement value. Was this item not new? If you bought an item and it was never delivered to you then the party you bought it from should give you back the money you paid. This is all that they owe you as the contract to buy the items was never completed.
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 02:30 am Post Subject:
If the item you purchased was not delivered to you, for any reason, your claim is with the person from whom you purchased the item. They owe you the full value of the item. How they come up with that amount is their problem, not your insurance company's.
How did you pay for the item? If with a credit card, you can ask for a refund of the charges and they will chargeback the merchant.
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 05:50 am Post Subject: U.P.S. has a recent warehouse fire
here were the headlines in the last UPS warehouse fire
"UPS is contacting more than 1,100 customers ... to let them know their packages won’t make it. ... the company’s insurance will pay to replace the charred items"
we are planning to write a complaint letter to the corporate office of the company we purchased the items from.. We will be asking them to replace each item purchased or the current replacement value with documentation backing up our figures.
We will wait for a Reply Letter, if they tell us the items are not available, and state that they will only refund the original prices paid.
We will then make a claim with UPS fire insurance, showing the two letters, and asking them to pay the difference from what our original company returned and what the cost to replace each item is, with documentation showing the replacement value of each item.
so no one thinks my house insurance agent, should deal with the UPS fire insurance agent....
sounds like most .....just want a refund of the original credit cards charges
is there no one that feels we are entitled to have each item replaced or the actual replacement cost
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:50 am Post Subject:
You have yet to explain why there would be a difference in value between the purchase price of the item and the "replacement cost". If you just bought the item would these amounts not be the same?
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 04:57 pm Post Subject:
lets say the item is a Waterford Crystal Jesus figurine, which retails for $500 and I purchased it from Waterford for $100. I paid $100 for the item and $10 for shipping. $110 was placed on my credit card, then Waterford used UPS to send it out. UPS had a fire in their warehouse and said they want to replace the items burnt in the fire.
I write to Waterford that I would like a replacement Jesus or the actual cost it will cost me to go out and purchase another elsewhere.
Waterford writes back and says we do not have any more Jesus and we are only going to refund the $110 you paid.
I then write UPS FIRE INSURANCE, show them the letters to and from Waterford, and ask them for the difference of the actual cost refunded by Waterford $110 and the actual replacement cost to find another Joseph figurine (lets say its selling on ebay for $410) or $300
just because Waterford, does not want to make waves with UPS, (or that's what they are telling me)
I feel UPS fire insurance should pay for my loss $300
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 07:20 pm Post Subject:
lets say the item is a Waterford Crystal Jesus figurine, which retails for $500 and I purchased it from Waterford for $100. I paid $100 for the item and $10 for shipping. $110 was placed on my credit card, then Waterford used UPS to send it out. UPS had a fire in their warehouse and said they want to replace the items burnt in the fire.
You have a very misguided idea of contracts, insurance, and the principle of indemnity. First, YOU have no claim against UPS as the Carrier. Only the shipper does.
Second, YOU only have a right to indemnification as to the item itself -- either a refund of the purchase price of the item or a replacement of the item. That call belongs to the shipper.
Third, if the SHIPPER cannot provide you with a replacement at the $100 price point and must pay a higher price to replace the item instead of giving you a refund, then the SHIPPER has the right to be indemnified for the difference -- assuming that the shipper purchased excess coverage, if necessary, from the Carrier.
I write to Waterford that I would like a replacement Jesus or the actual cost it will cost me to go out and purchase another elsewhere.
Nope, you get the purchase price or a new item, you DO NOT get the increased value.Waterford writes back and says we do not have any more Jesus and we are only going to refund the $110 you paid.
Now you have the idea correct -- or at least Waterford does.I then write UPS FIRE INSURANCE, show them the letters to and from Waterford, and ask them for the difference of the actual cost refunded by Waterford $110 and the actual replacement cost to find another Joseph figurine (lets say its selling on ebay for $410) or $300
UPS will send you a response that, effectively, says, "GO BUTT A STUMP!" They have no contract with you and have no accountability to you because you are only the Recipient of the package. You cannot demand anything from UPS and you cannot sue UPS. If you even attempt to sue UPS, the court will throw you out on your ear when you cannot provide a copy of your contract with UPS -- because you don't have one.Just because Waterford, does not want to make waves with UPS, (or that's what they are telling me). I feel UPS fire insurance should pay for my loss $300
It has nothing to do with Waterford making waves or not with UPS, Waterford has only an obligation to deliver the item sold to you or refund your money, PERIOD!! If they cannot provide the item, they send you a refund and collect that amount from UPS as indeminification for THEIR LOSS.Once you have your refund money in hand, you have been 100% INDEMNIFIED for your loss. Had the item been delivered to you, and then discovered to be damaged, your recourse would be no different. You would still have to obtain your indemnification from the Seller, not the Common Carrier, because your sales contract is with the seller. Only the seller has a shipping contract with the shipper, whether you pay the cost of shipping or not.
What you do not understand about Property and Casualty insurance is something called "insurable interest". Read your homeowner's policy. If you don't own it, and have it in your possession at the time of the loss, there is no insurable interest. Your homeowner's insurance would not indemnify you for the loss either.
You purchased an item. Once it is in your hot little hands, then you have insurable interest. When you purchased the item long distance, the insurable interest rests with the seller/shipper until it is no longer under his control. Once the package is tendered to UPS, UPS has insurable interest in the item, but because they know the item does not belong to them, they purchase liability insurance for their protection in the event of loss or damage to the item due to their negligence. But when they cannot deliver the item to the intended recipient, the only party they have a legal responsibility to is the last person who had an insurable interest in the item. That's who must be indemnified, because that's the party who contracted for common carrier services.
You and the seller have a contract, The seller and the carrier have a contract. You and the carrier are entirely unrelated in this series of events. You never had an insurable interest in the item because it was never in your possession.
The only way this would turn out differently is if the seller said, "Here are the shipping rates for UPS, Fedex, USPS. Choose the one you want." Instead, you have a contract with UPS that entitles you to discounted shipping fees, and you tell the seller, "Here's my UPS account number, bill the shipment to my account." Now you have a contract to deliver the item to yourself via UPS. If the item is damaged, lost, or stolen, and cannot be replaced, then you would have the right to be indemnified for the Fair Market Value of the item, not necessarily the replacement cost of the item. For that, you would have to consult your shipper contract with UPS to see what your rights are. Because the item was never in your possession, you still have no insurable interest in the item as far as your personal homeowner's policy would be concerned.
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