by schao » Tue Aug 19, 2008 07:32 pm
Hello everyone. I am new to this community and have been reading some of the threads on here to find some answers. Well, I couldn't but from all the responses, you all seem like such nice folks and may be able to help me out! Ok, so here is the scenario.
My younger brother's vehicle has liability insurance only and he lives with my mother. My mother took his car without his permission and was in a car accident involving a MAC truck. No parties were injured, his car was totaled and the truck has front damage (appraised at $3,500).
The issue here is that my mother does not have a valid drivers' license and has a mental disability. She somehow got her hands on the keys and drove it around the block (where the accident occured). THANK GOD she or anyone was not injured. His insurance will not cover since she is not on the policy and there is only liability coverage anyways. The owner of the truck has sent him a bill for $3,500.00 that was appraised at a local shop. The damage did not look like $3,500 but this is what the truck driver was quoted. What are his options now? His insurance is refusing to help or even guide him anywhere. Is he SOL unless he press charges on my sick mother for vehicle theft (which is out of the question)? Can he get this appraised himself to confirm if this is a reasonable price for damage? Thanks in advance!
-Sam
My younger brother's vehicle has liability insurance only and he lives with my mother. My mother took his car without his permission and was in a car accident involving a MAC truck. No parties were injured, his car was totaled and the truck has front damage (appraised at $3,500).
The issue here is that my mother does not have a valid drivers' license and has a mental disability. She somehow got her hands on the keys and drove it around the block (where the accident occured). THANK GOD she or anyone was not injured. His insurance will not cover since she is not on the policy and there is only liability coverage anyways. The owner of the truck has sent him a bill for $3,500.00 that was appraised at a local shop. The damage did not look like $3,500 but this is what the truck driver was quoted. What are his options now? His insurance is refusing to help or even guide him anywhere. Is he SOL unless he press charges on my sick mother for vehicle theft (which is out of the question)? Can he get this appraised himself to confirm if this is a reasonable price for damage? Thanks in advance!
-Sam
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 06:14 pm Post Subject:
Schao, the carrier will more than likely offer a payment plan, but I'm hoping it won't come to that...what exactly is mom's diagnosis? My thought on that is, were it my brother, depending on mom's diagnosis and what type of impression she would make on a judge and/or jury, same with brother, the impression he would make...I'm thinking there may be enough sympathy that he did all he could to prevent this, and just maybe let him off the hook...
Where exactly were the keys? Were they hidden or out in the open?
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 06:39 pm Post Subject:
She has a memory/cognitive disorder, similar to that of amnesia but she has not been officially diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease.
The keys were not hidden (although it is now), it was simply on his computer desk at the time.
Do you think at this point we should consult an attorney if the carrier pursues and does not have the ability/compassion to drop this?
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 06:51 pm Post Subject:
Personally I think I would wait, any chance of mom having a formal diagnosis any time soon? I'm not sure if your state (DOI) has or offers administrative hearings when there is a dispute on an uninsured claim..you might check that out...if so you have nothing to lose (you represent yourself)....if your brother (and mom) would qualify for legal aid, then placing a call to them would be a good idea (I'm trying to think of ways you won't have to ' pay' for help)....
I'm assuming brother doesn't have a full time job, or any assets? Is that right? and Mom what about her?
It will take the trucks insurance company anywhere from probably 30-90 days or so to start the subro process...now, that being said you might get a letter pretty quick just putting brother on notice, they likely will want to take a statement from him, and maybe mom as well...I'll leave that up to you all to decide if you want to give them a recorded statement....again If it were me, I'd probably call the adjuster on their behalf and try and explain the situation/circumstances etc...remembering that brother was NOT uninsured....it was just (unfortunately) an excluded loss....I would certainly do all I could to play the pity card...brother not only has all this hassle at such a young age, but now has no vehicle to boot!
What kind of impression would each of them make on a judge or jury?
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 08:19 pm Post Subject:
I doubt the other person's carrier will let this one slide. Granted, they will almost certainly allow a payment plan to be set up.
OP, I'm still not sold on the info that your carrier does not need to provide your _brother_ coverage. CA is a little odd so I guess it's possible that the exclusion states that they will not offer liability coverage to your _brother_ if your mother is driving but I'm not convinced that this wording is possible. It's removing protection from innocent 3rd parties and partially removes coverage that your brother is paying for. It seems to fly in the face of an exclusion but I still think your brothers carrier might only be able to exclude coverage from your mother and not your brother... which means that they are going to provide the same coverage even if your mother was driving.
Again, its certainly possible that they can exclude all coverage, I don't know for sure but let me explain. Your brother is paying for liability coverage to protect him in the use of the vehicle. The policy usually provides coverage for someone driving the car as long as they had permission (in the case, the mother was a "permissive user").Driver exclusions usually exclude coverage for the person _driving_ the car... in this case your mother. But they _usually_ can't exclude coverage to the policy holder... after all, he's still paying for liability coverage. I'd recommend that your brother obtain a copy of the exclusion and read it to see if it excludes liability coverage to _him_. Even if it's allowed in CA, the exclusion might not be worded that way.
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 09:39 pm Post Subject:
tcope, here is the exact wording from the denial letter including parts from the policy regarding exclusions:
Dear ____:
We have been advised that your vehicle was involved in an automobile accident on 00/00/0000. Our investigation has revealed that ___mother's name___ was operating your covered auto. Pursuant to your request, ___mother's name___ is listed as an excluded driver under the policy referenced above. The applicable policy language excluding coverage to this driver is under page 30 of your policy, the Named Driver Exclusion, which states:
If you have asked us to exclude any person from coverage under this Policy, then we will not provide coverage under any parts of this policy including Uninsured/Underinsured Motorist Coverage, for any claim arising from an accident or loss involving a covered vehicle or any other vehicle that occurs while it is being operated by the excluded person. THIS INCLUDES ANY CLAIM FOR DAMAGES MADE AGAINST YOU OR AN INSURED PERSON FOR AN ACCIDENT ARISING OUT OF THE OPERATION OR USE OF A COVERED VEHICLE BY THE EXCLUDED DRIVER."
As a result of the signed Driver Exclusion Agreement, coverage cannot be afforded and State National Insurance Company will be unable to make any voluntary payment or payments for any claim or claims you may present as a result of the above referenced accident
Further, the application for this auto policy, executed and signed by you on 00/00/0000, reads as follows:
Driver Exclusion Endorsement - California
This endorsement modifies your policy in the following way:
The policy shall not provide any insurance when any excluded driver is driving any automobile. It is hereby understood and agreed that the Company shall not be liable for loss, damage and/or liability caused while the automobile(s) described in the policy or any other automobile to which the terms of the policy are extended is being driven or operated by the following named person/persons:
Name: MOTHER'S NAME Date of birth: 00/00/0000
Relationship: mother
With that said, did we even need to exclude our mother in the first place as she did not have a valid drivers' license for the past 4+ years? She was not even a driver in the home in the first place. Does this have any weight on "Excluded Driver's" since the policy has been in effect?
Lori, we are still in the process of treatment/diagnostic for my mother and it seems like we will not have an official wording anytime soon. Also, mom and brother has no assets. Mom receives benefit from the state for her disability and brother is working P/T though.
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:18 pm Post Subject:
Well that exclusion pretty much excludes coverage... period. Sorry.
Your mother needed to be excluded otherwise the policy would provide liability coverage to your mother and at least your brother if she were to drive the vehicle. To the insurance company is an unacceptable risk (she is not licensed to drive) so they would not have issued/renewed the policy without this exclusion.
IMHO- there is not much your brother can do in this situation. I feel for him.
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 09:23 am Post Subject:
Don't give up though...wait on the subrogation docs to come from the other carrier...the other carrier more than likely will call to get statements from your mom and/or brother...if you want to talk to the adjuster on their behalf, that would be fine, and plead their case...I personally would hold off signing any promisory notes etc...until I had climbed to the top of the subro dept in an attempt to get them to write it off...let us know when you hear from them...we'll be here to help in anyway we can.
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:08 pm Post Subject:
Thank you both for all your suggestions/comments. I will update when we cross that bridge. Have a wonderful weekend!
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