by TLE » Tue Jan 20, 2009 04:48 am
I was wondering if all these company's I see on TV that sell insurance on the internet and do not use an agent and they give a discount if you buy on line,does this hurt sales for some agents, and is it possible this could eliminate the agents job.
Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:16 am Post Subject:
I anxiously await your reply! (does this mean gary that I have the distinction of winning the third, fourth and fifth thread war?)
No.
Actually Lori,... those numbers cause me to have more questions?
Agent commission on P & C is about 10%.
So if bought through the agent the price is $48.33 per month, so the agent would earn a whooping $4.83 per month, AND $43.50 net to the company after commission.
The online quote of $30.18 is too low, that leads me to believe that is a 6 month sucker rate and come the 7th month you'll be paying the full rate and more.
The method by which a person buys the insurance doesn't change the risk to the insurance company.
So I'm sorry, SOMETHING IS WRONG. Buying online doesn't reduce the loss ratio to the insurance company by 30%!!!
As far as you winning this thread war....of course not! But I am glad you took the time to expose Progressive and their online bait and switch technique.
An agent would know this and would steer clients clear of companies who play unsustainable pricing games.
Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:23 pm Post Subject:
Gary, what on earth is wrong with you? I'm serious...your stance is/was that:
1ST. agents and agency own all of these online quote sites...
PROVEN WRONG..
2ND. there is NO difference in the cost of an online and agent quote
PROVEN WRONG..
3RD. there is a difference, and ALL online quotes are higher than an agent quote
PROVEN WRONG...
I told you that the progressive direct quote stated the first term had a one time 50 discount for buying direct after that the premium would still be lower than the agent quote but the difference not so vast...
And why are you playing so dumb with this..you know there are more (company) savings other than just the agent commission when purchasing direct... :roll:
As far as you winning this thread war....of course not!
You are proved wrong with credible data per your request in three different areas...and you have the NERVE to get pissed at SD and others about similar things? Oh please....sorry Gary but there just are few things worse than someone that can't admit when they are wrong or make a mistake..(i make mistakes and own them daily!) although you've been accused of a bit too much ego, I really thought you better than this...I'm truly disappointed and saddened by your response. :( and I'm sure I'm not the only one...I am glad you took the time to expose Progressive and their online bait and switch technique.
Well now you're gonna have to prove that one...I'll tell you the same thing you tell everyone else, your opinion is just that an opinion...and on this topic you clearly have zero proof, and are just pissed you were bested...Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 02:16 pm Post Subject:
Agent commission on P & C is about 10%.
Actually, the commission rate runs anywhere from 12% to 15%.
But I am glad you took the time to expose Progressive and their online bait and switch technique.
Progressive is doing nothing that most of the other P&C carriers aren't doing, like AIG Auto, Travelers, MetLife Auto & Home, The Hartford, etc., etc. Most P&C carriers sell insurance direct to the consumer online, AT A DISCOUNTED RATE.
You are proved wrong with credible data per your request in three different areas...and you have the NERVE to get pissed at SD and others about similar things?
Lori, this is an excellent point. To me, it seems that the entire "Attitude" of this insurance community has changed from the time I actually became a member. I really can't put my finger on the reason, but I will venture to say that some arrangement has been made to have a certain number of "guests" online every day. Oftentimes, the same questions are repeated in different forums.
I hope it improves.
Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 02:23 pm Post Subject:
To me, it seems that the entire "Attitude" of this insurance community has changed from the time I actually became a member. I really can't put my finger on the reason, but I will venture to say that some arrangement has been made to have a certain number of "guests" online every day. Oftentimes, the same questions are repeated in different forums.
Maze, I want to expand on this...and discuss it more would you mind posting/starting a thread in the pub regarding this and your concerns so we can (hopefully) get some answers and resolution?
Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:13 pm Post Subject:
First of all I know this is not a thread I should be posting in but when I read the title to the thread I followed it closely since it was pertaining to something I was considering doing. One question for Lori....I have seen others get insurance cheaper on line for the past year. If I already have insurance through an agent how do I switch to get a direct offer and cheaper rates? If you want you can delete this and I can start it on a new thread for all forum members.
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:16 am Post Subject:
Gary, what on earth is wrong with you?
Nothing, I'm just playing the exact same game you and SD play whereby you don't COMPREHEND what a person wrote and in the context they wrote it regarding the subject matter being discussed.
Frustrating isn't it?
You are actually the one who was going on and on and on about a price "difference" (ON PAGE TWO) when the OP was asking about online insurance sales putting agents out of business on (PAGE ONE)
Also, go back and re-read page one of this thread and try to comprehend whether I was writing about auto insurance or life insurance.
Now "common sense" should tell a person there is no mathematical way the RISK of persons having auto accidents is 30% LESS if they bought their policy online than through an agent, that's absurd.
I would still like to know what point you are attempting to make? It's NOT better for the insurance buying public not to consult with an agent when purchasing any form of insurance. Insurance by its very nature is very complex and it changes everyday.
I think all the reasonable issues were settled on this thread by my first post on page two. TLE should have understood at that point there is no difference in price for life insurance and BEWARE when buying auto insurance online.
No Lori, I'm sorry, you've lost this thread war because the "issues" you were focused on aren't relevant to the Original Posters topic.
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 01:49 pm Post Subject:
Nothing, I'm just playing the exact same game you and SD play whereby you don't COMPREHEND what a person wrote and in the context they wrote it regarding the subject matter being discussed.
Ok, now "I" don't comprehend what a person wrote or the context in which they wrote it huh? Dude, you have lost your ever lovin' mind...Your first WRONG INACCRUATE POST (on this thread) :
TLE it IS insurance agents and agencies that own those online sites.
Also, go back and re-read page one of this thread and try to comprehend whether I was writing about auto insurance or life insurance.
You yourself brought auto ins into the topic..
What's sold online is "order taker" type insurance. Such as, term life insurance, auto insurance, Medicare supplements and very expensive guaranteed issue life insurance
You further your inaccruate information with this:
There's is no such thing as saving money because you bought over the phone or online.
and yet more incorrect information :
There isn't any difference in price. There is only a difference in perception.
The quotes I got per your request sure seem to be different to anyone that can understand third grade math...(isnt that one of your favorite lines Gary?)All of the above from page one...
the op asked
Does that also apply to car insurance. when companies like progressive sells without an agent and they sell direct.
So clearly you knew you were talking about auto ins..because you quoted it and then went on with...the whole progressive thing ...and by the way I don't think progressive sells life insurance... :roll:Then you make this bold statement (page two)
I will bet my Properly and Casually license right now you won't be able to get quote online from Progressive that is less money than what a Progressive agent can sell the exact same contract
:roll: :roll:Then you put forth this (proven) WRONG jewell:
Yes, you're right....there is a price difference....it's MORE MONEY TO BUY ONLINE than through an agent That's MY STAND
I did this per your request:Then send me your online quote and the Progressive agent's quote and I'll post the facts on this thread.
Then you begin page three with this arrogant rant:To date there has only been two (2) Internet Thread WARS that I have lost in my entire *SAFE carreer and this wasn't one of them because you can't claim victory without credible and verifiable facts which YOU my dear have not provided.
And now I have...but as I was afraid you would do...you still are never wrong are you Gary? When it's right there in your face...you still want to argue that you are right...it's all about Gary and his inability to admit to being human... :roll:SHOW ME the difference in price from buying online or through an agent with the exact same company with the exact same contract.
And I did but you still are right huh Gary....it's a darn shame...SHOW ME.
And again:
Back to the facts, SHOW ME the auto insurance policy proposal whereby auto insurance with Progressive is a differrent premium for the EXACT same contract and the only thing that was "different" was the method by which the policy was purchased.
I held up my end of the bargain...by my calculations you owe me your P&C license as well as a full bowl of crow, get out the fork and the envelope and stamps...SHOW ME!
ONLY then can you claim victory and I'll eat crow and have three (3) losses in my entire *SAFE carreer vs hundreds of victories with a winning percent of 99.9475896%
Ins maze even pointed out answering this post of yours
until a real P & C agent or someone posts credible information to the contrary I will proffer your OPINION is just that....your opinion.
Maze who I believe qualifys as a 'real' P&C agent states:Anyone who has worked with property and casualty insurance knows very well that the online "direct" quotes are cheaper than what an agent can get.
But I guess maybe his information like mine (since it disagrees with your uneducated, unsubstantiated OPINION) is also not 'worthy' of the great SAFE Gary... :roll:There's just no debate on that point!!
Now "common sense" should tell a person there is no mathematical way the RISK of persons having auto accidents is 30% LESS if they bought their policy online than through an agent, that's absurd.
Absurd or not (who are we to say) that's what happens atleast with this company and per Maze most if not all! Maybe you should call and enlighten these multi billion dollar companys Gary, I'm sure they would appreciate you setting them straight... :roll:It's NOT better for the insurance buying public not to consult with an agent when purchasing any form of insurance. Insurance by its very nature is very complex and it changes everyday.
I totally agree...never said it was...just said it was a different price...that's all...AFTER you said it wasn't you brought this topic into the thread with your unsubstantiated (and inaccruate) rant...I think all the reasonable issues were settled on this thread by my first post on page two
Oh my gosh! we are so honored to have you clear things up... :roll: actually that post cleared up nothing...other than to say the commericals do not say you will save money...but turns out you do...had you looked further into that site you would've found what i did re: are the premiums the same (agent vs direct) 'no' says progressive they are not...No Lori, I'm sorry, you've lost this thread war because the "issues" you were focused on aren't relevant to the Original Posters topic.
Well Gary surely you understand that threads expand, but i think it is exactly the issue the OP asked about...in the OP's first post...
do not use an agent and they give a discount if you buy on line,does this hurt sales for some agents, and is it possible this could eliminate the agents job.
to which (again) you reply in part...There's is no such thing as saving money because you bought over the phone or online
andThere isn't any difference in price.
Now Gary, I don't believe for one minute that you don't know that you provided and posted (mulitple times) wrong, inaccruate mis-leading and incorrect information...and have been proven wrong...and to quote you from another thread where the situation was reversed I ask and tell you with your own words:
If you are NOT going to let this go and move on then neither will I and I will continue to challenge your incorrect information.
YOU ARE FLAT OUT WRONG.
PERIOD.
END OF STORY. Please stop offering your incorrect opinion .
yet you continue with your absolutely false information. Please stop this.
Come on Gary suck it up put your big boy pants on be a man and admit you are wrong...it will only hurt for a little bit I promise...truly I don't want to lose respect for you, and hope you are just trying really hard to be an unreasonable poster on this thread...But dude you're coming off like a jerk and also your character and respect hang in the balance....think about it...it's clear as a bell to everyone else reading this...
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:36 am Post Subject:
Lori,
I didn't read the post above.
Too much emotion.
But I will spell out some things for you.
Buying auto insurance online are sucker rates. When the policy renews they will more than make up for the initial lower premium, IF ANY.
We are not arguing about the same thing.
You are attempting to argue ..."gotcha Gary"... you finally posted something about insurance that's inacurrate.
In fact, that's really been your whole purpose on this thread.
Buying insurance online is a method by which the insurance company can legally rob you by having you screw yourself.
That's my stand.
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:23 pm Post Subject:
We are not arguing about the same thing
Yes we most certainly are, however when you are proven wrong per your request for proof..then you attempt to change the point...sorry mr. you're had...Buying insurance online is a method by which the insurance company can legally rob you by having you screw yourself.
Well you conveniently change your stand then don't cha' Gary, look a few pages back for your 'former' stand..why do you think i ask you repeatedly to state it...and what was it again? hmmmmmm oh yeah,That's my stand.
Here's my stand... I'll quote myself: Quote: Back to the facts, SHOW ME the auto insurance policy proposal whereby auto insurance with Progressive is a differrent premium for the EXACT same contract and the only thing that was "different" was the method by which the policy was purchased.SHOW ME!
Oh wait here's another of your 'stands'''ONLY then can you claim victory and I'll eat crow and have three (3) losses in my entire *SAFE carreer vs hundreds of victories with a winning percent of 99.9475896%
Yes, you're right....there is a price difference....it's MORE MONEY TO BUY ONLINE than through an agent That's MY STAND
You typed all of that not I....so now that you have 'lost' your minimally third (i say you lost of three separate points) thread war...(all of this rhetoric you brought into the thread..actually seeing how you respond to proof that you screwed up i totally get how YOU think YOU have only been wrong three times :roll: )you haven't the back bone to take it like a man? Are you kidding me?
.
You are attempting to argue ..."gotcha Gary"... you finally posted something about insurance that's inacurrate.In fact, that's really been your whole purpose on this thread.
No I would not say that is the purpose of this whole thread...it however did become a mission when you began acting like a child, and couldn't even perceive that you might actually be wrong about ANYTHING... all the while doing something that you insist you hate...POSTING YOUR OPINIONS AS FACT...when in fact they were PROVEN wrong as wrong can be.....Gary what is your problem? Seriously, are you just one of those guys that absolutely no matter the truth and fact cannot to save their life admit they made a mistake? You're the one that was throwing ridiculous challenges out (ie bet my p&c license, eat crow, etc)...I'm mean seriously...you ask for proof you got proof...now instead of acting like an adult and admitting you made a mistake, posted inaccurate information, without substantiation other than your SAFE opinion that wasn't worth a peck on this topic...you really disappoint me...
Please address your double talk, and change in stances etc :roll: ...admit you made a mistake...you got way too emotional and threw out challenges you could not back up, and lost...and now you feel trapped and cornered...I get that, you've still got time to save a little face...it's in your court now...if you insist on this child like behavior i would atleast ask that you respond to your changes in your 'stand', and other directly opposite statements than your prior posts....you might also want to check that soap box, because your behavior is certainly causing it to wabble
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 03:07 pm Post Subject:
Buying any type of insurance online, whether it be life, health, auto, or home, to me is not a good idea.
Many times these quote engines are only harvesting prospects and if you will notice at the bottom of the page or somewhere in the "disclaimer", it will say "An agent will contact you within 2 business days", or something similar.
The insurance company sponsored quote engines are legitimate and do offer auto and home rates at a significant discount from what any insurance agent could quote.
I have discussed this situation with companies like Travelers and MetLife Auto & Home. It seems that it would be better to give the agent the lower rates so he/she could build their block of business faster, but the companies just don't see it that way. It's called greed.
To argue the point is ridiculous!
When a person buys auto insurance online, they do not have the convenience of an insurance agent. There is no one to change vehicles, change coverage, add drivers, remove drivers, quote "what if" situations, etc. When you buy online, you're on your own!
If you make a mistake, there's no agent to blame.
During this lengthy debate, I was reminded of all the insurance agents I have trained. Some very successful, some not.
My advice has always been to pick your "niche" and don't try to be everything to everyone. There's just no way anyone can do it in a professional manner.
An agent who specializes in life insurance cannot possibly keep up with all the changes in auto insurance and vice versa.
If you encounter an agent who thinks he/she knows it all, my best advice would be to "run".
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