by Ceasars Ghost » Thu Jan 17, 2008 09:27 pm
Are insured entitled under any law to obtain 3 estimates on a car's value if they don't trust the insurance company's paid adjuster (who renews his contract with the company only by saving them money, not by costing them money).
A friend's brother-in-law ran my car's value on NADA and came up with a value of roughly $5700 and my insurance company's adjuster is saying it is worth $4100.
It's a 1999 toyota camry le 4dr sedan; 4 cyl., 2.2 liter. It's options are: automatic transmission, air conditioning, power driver's seat, heated back glass with antenna, electric remote control mirrors, cruise control, power windows and doors. No moon or sun roof. It has $159,600 miles on it but was in excellent condition prior to the accident-- even brand new tires and wiper blades; but the adjuster won't list it as anything better than "good" condition in obtaining his figures. (Of course, after being totaled it isn't in "good" condition either, but that's as good as the adjuster will go.)
Is there a way to contest the company's adjuster's value? Do I have a right to get other estimates on the car's value? Is the $5700 NADA value my friend's brother in law gave me in the correct ballpark instead of this $4100 stuff the insurance company is trying to tell me?
Further, because I like the car and want to keep it and fix it they want to knock an additional $1200 off of their settlement check. (Initially they said it would be $800 to $1000 and my wife and I wanted to discuss the offer first. When we talked to the company the next time they said they had made a mistake and that they were taking $1400 off because we were keeping the car. We said that if the car was suddenly worth that much more that they were losing an extra $400 to $600 by letting us keep it that the car's actual value must be more than the $4100 they were trying to tell us and that they therefore ought to be reevaluating the car's value (up) before taking the $1400 off. They went only far enough to say that they would be doing us a HUGE favor, but were willing to adjust their withheld total down from $1400 to $1200.
The whole negotiation with them has been nothing but swinging at a moving target and I can't help the feeling that we're getting a royal screw job. The company is urgently trying to settle the claim and pressure us into taking the deal and my wife wants to because she is just tired of fighting it (I'm sure the insurance company depends on that), but I always want to fight harder when I think I'm getting a financial screw job.
Any guidance from the experts that might help???
thanks!
A friend's brother-in-law ran my car's value on NADA and came up with a value of roughly $5700 and my insurance company's adjuster is saying it is worth $4100.
It's a 1999 toyota camry le 4dr sedan; 4 cyl., 2.2 liter. It's options are: automatic transmission, air conditioning, power driver's seat, heated back glass with antenna, electric remote control mirrors, cruise control, power windows and doors. No moon or sun roof. It has $159,600 miles on it but was in excellent condition prior to the accident-- even brand new tires and wiper blades; but the adjuster won't list it as anything better than "good" condition in obtaining his figures. (Of course, after being totaled it isn't in "good" condition either, but that's as good as the adjuster will go.)
Is there a way to contest the company's adjuster's value? Do I have a right to get other estimates on the car's value? Is the $5700 NADA value my friend's brother in law gave me in the correct ballpark instead of this $4100 stuff the insurance company is trying to tell me?
Further, because I like the car and want to keep it and fix it they want to knock an additional $1200 off of their settlement check. (Initially they said it would be $800 to $1000 and my wife and I wanted to discuss the offer first. When we talked to the company the next time they said they had made a mistake and that they were taking $1400 off because we were keeping the car. We said that if the car was suddenly worth that much more that they were losing an extra $400 to $600 by letting us keep it that the car's actual value must be more than the $4100 they were trying to tell us and that they therefore ought to be reevaluating the car's value (up) before taking the $1400 off. They went only far enough to say that they would be doing us a HUGE favor, but were willing to adjust their withheld total down from $1400 to $1200.
The whole negotiation with them has been nothing but swinging at a moving target and I can't help the feeling that we're getting a royal screw job. The company is urgently trying to settle the claim and pressure us into taking the deal and my wife wants to because she is just tired of fighting it (I'm sure the insurance company depends on that), but I always want to fight harder when I think I'm getting a financial screw job.
Any guidance from the experts that might help???
thanks!
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 09:35 pm Post Subject: Total Valuation Loss Discrepancy
Also: if it helps when valuing my loss value it's home base was in Topeka, kansas and it was totaled over the Christmas break while visiting friends in Ogden, Utah . . . but I'm guessing that it's value is based on the Topeka values? Or is it based on Ogden, Utah values since that's where the car both was and IS-- and would be if the insurance company got to keep it???
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:26 am Post Subject:
You can obtain some free quotes from the local used car dealers and see what the price they have to offer. Get their quotes in writing, these will act as a document if you have to contest the price offered by the insurance company.
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:17 am Post Subject:
Hi Ceasars Ghost, I too believe that the adjuster is trying to lowball your claim (even the Kelley's Blue Book shows a value more than $5,000). OK, lemme try to answer your questions one by one….
Is there a way to contest the company's adjuster's value?
Yes, you can challenge the adjuster's evaluation.
Do what the above poster has said. These quotes will act as a document. When you contest the valuation done by the insurer you need to prove it before them that vehicle is worth more than their assessment. Therefore, you need all the possible documents that will support your point.
Do I have a right to get other estimates on the car's value?
Yes you do.
You can also ask for the adjuster's evaluation sheet and run a check to see whether the calculation is proper or not. The adjuster, at times, may miss out on factors that may increase the value of your car.
Is the $5700 NADA value my friend's brother in law gave me in the correct ballpark instead of this $4100 stuff the insurance company is trying to tell me?
Yeah, most of the time.
Most of the insurer trusts the NADA value. However, they all apply their own methods to determine the value of a totaled car. Therefore, you need to find out the method your carrier is applying to ascertain the value of your vehicle.
Also keep us updated with the developments.
Thanks,
Carol
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:43 am Post Subject:
I ran your vehicle, on NADA, (assumed you have alumn wheels) and came up with $5325. 00....Are you absolutely sure that the 4100.00 dollar figure isn't the figure with you retaining the salvage? Keeping the car? Which would make much more sense...if you take my figure and subtract the salvage amount....which is correct by the way they have to charge you for the salvage, because they will get this if they obtain it...
You need to know EXACTLY how they determined the value of your vehicle they owe you the ACV...double check to make sure they have the correct model, options etc...(your mileage is a killer by the way on mine it docked it 1125.00)...also you need to find out EXACTLY how they determine their salvage bid....and check it...if they have a contract for a percentage, ask to see it, if they call and get bids (which is what I do with the company I work for) then you call too..
but I'm guessing that it's value is based on the Topeka values
Double check that too, they should be using the geo code for where the vehicle is registered and resides (KS)...don't know if that will make a difference but it might...also KS pays sales tax directly back to the owners (if you let them have the vehicle)...something to remember.You can invoke the ''appraisal'' clause, you can use your own carrier and let them subro this outfit..(might be a good idea seriously)....I would also do your own ''market survey'' which is what the adjuster should have to do if you can't agree...which is to call three local (topeka) larger used car dealers tell them exactly what you had...and ask what they would TAKE for that car on their lot...get names, phone numbers etc...don't try and pursuade the used car manager, just give them the facts about your vehicle...then you too can present this evidence of value...
What do you mean by this statement,
don't trust the insurance company's paid adjuster (who renews his contract with the company only by saving them money, not by costing them money).
And what do you have to back this up? Is this an independent adjusting company? Or an adjuster that works for the company in question...Please don't hesitate to ask more questions....another thing to remember should you decide to retain this vehicle...it will have (forever more) a salvage title thus reducing it's value greatly, yes even after you repair it, (should it have another accident)...you will more than likely be responsible for the cost of getting it back to KS.
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 06:40 pm Post Subject:
i went through the same thing when my stepsons car was wrote off by someone rear ending him. i was told by an sdjuster friend that that they usually try and get you to accept the lowest value of the year and make of that model vehicle. my adjuster friend also advised me that every insurance company has an ombudsman that you can contact if your not happy with their offer. i took his advice and contacted the ombudsman and advised him we were not happy with what the insurance company was offering and within a week the raised the offer by $800. which we then accepted. through all of this we also came to the conclusion that when he bought the car from the dealer that he probably paid $1000 more than he should have for the vehicle. now this is in canada so i'm not sure if it works the same in the states.
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:39 pm Post Subject:
Don't think I've ever heard of an ombudsman (pertaining to ins.carriers, have heard of course of it)...There is always a supervisor etc...I'll say though all adjusters and companies operate differently, when I value a vehicle it rarely changes and only if I've made a mistake in someway in the evaluation...or am over road by a superior, but I'd say 99% of the time my ACV stands...
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 04:26 am Post Subject: Total Valuation Loss Discrepancy
Ok, I finally got the breakdown of numbers from the insurance company. They are valuing the car at $4,669. They are taking $500 off for the deductible, meaning $4,169. Because I want to keep the car they are taking another $1,200 off of that, now down to $2,969. They then apparently add sales tax on at our local rate of 7.45% of (2,969 x 7.45% = 221.19). So, with $2,969 added with $221.19 they are "willing" to pay us $3,190.19 plus a $10 licensing fee making the grand total $3,200.19.
That still seems low to me, but each of the suggestions made here-- as well as any more that anyone else wants to add-- are EXTREMELY appreciated and have been incredibly informative in helping me make sure I know what rights I'm entitled to exercise, etc. I don't want to take advantage of the company, and I don't want them to take advantage of me either. Knowledge is power in leveling the playing field, and thank you everyone who has or will comment. This is all extremely helpful!!!
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 04:35 am Post Subject:
don't trust the insurance company's paid adjuster (who renews his contract with the company only by saving them money, not by costing them money).
Our insurance company has its own adjusters but because of the supposedly "remote" location and a large number of accidents over the holidays they outsourced to an adjuster they have apparently often used. As with most outsourced contractors, however, I'm simply supposing that he has a financial incentive to find a value closer to the low end in the company's favor rather than in favor of them forking out more than they're supposed to. Insurance companies couldn't stay in business if they were consistently paying top dollar, and their CEOs certainly would be getting fired rather than bonuses and large salaries. If there's an independent adjuster who always finds on the high end and one who always finds on the low end, I can't imagine there's an insurance company out there dumb enough to continue contracting with the one who is always finding values on the high end and costing the company scads of extra money-- maybe that's just too cynical, who knows?
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 04:43 am Post Subject:
I'm still not sure how they factor in sales tax on a car that I'm keeping. I hate to complain because I desperately need any dollar I can get in trying to pay for the damage since the bulk of the check will go to pay off the loan instead of to us. (Our monthly loan payments were quite manageable but coming up with all the money on our own to be "made whole" is turning into quite a feat).
Also, is there typically any coverage in a comprehensive policy to assist with travel costs for the insureds in returning home when a car is totaled 1,200 miles from home. (We had no option in getting back for work other than to purchase two "last minute" plane tickets totaling $660.00; but I can't imagine that's something the insurance company would cover in even the most premium policies.) Any insights on that, though???
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 02:31 pm Post Subject:
They are valuing the car at $4,669
Well that should make you feel ''alittle'' better that's only 700 less than I came up with, and I (accidently) was using a december data base, so if loss was in January would be a little less...also (i failed to mention this) if there was ANY unrepaired prior damage to your vehicle there would be a percentage deducted from the value for this...did you make SURE that the evaluation had all your options etc.? 700 is still quite a difference (assuming no prior unrepaired damage-this includes interior!, hail etc)....also if you have not you should do your own 'market survey' as I suggested...(in KS).....Ok, re: the independent adjuster...you need to remember that things that are material or tangible really don't have a lot of 'wiggle' room...ie your car....(now if it's an unusal one, that's different)..so there is no 'range' really in a physical damage claim...they may 'conceed' a buck or two, but there is no low balling on this to benefit the independent...
WAIT WAIT WAIT on the sales tax! IF they are paying you sales tax (even though you are keeping the car) then they owe you the sales tax on the ACV!!! NOT THE NET...so they owe sales tax on 4669.00!!! bring this to their attention! Or minimally the ACV(4669,00) less the salvage bid 1200.00 so 3469.00 you deductible does NOT count here! better bring that up! and quick!!!
Some policys will provide ''up to ''x'' amount" (generally 500) for reasonible travel expenses...you should definately talk to the adjuster about this...and see if there is any benefit either given in the policy or company policy for this....(many times a company has a policy of providing this)...I've personally paid it under liablity for sure, but I can't recall if I have under first party, I think I did once many many years ago...But it was as I said, an 'up to amount'...let us know....
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