by Katjaneway » Thu Feb 04, 2010 04:07 am
I am having a horrible time with our totaled car. My husband and I had just bought this beautiful 2002 Buick Century in April 2009. We got GAP insurance on it through the dealership and had full coverage insurance through Progressive. My husband totaled the car in Dec '09 by running a curb at 50, popping the airbags, cracking the windshield... etc etc and totaled the vehicle. Well, because the vehicle was still mainly in tact after the accident, a prior damage assessment was done alongside the claims settlement and was sent to GAP insurance (AHIS) who automatically ignored it, because THEY don't pay prior damage to vehicles. It had $770 in prior damage that I now have to pay out of pocket for a car I don't own. GAP insurance may be good on a brand new car, but check out these numbers. We still owed over $11,000 on the car when it was totaled - we hadn't had a chance to pay much of it down. Progressive said the car was worth $7,400 after the $500 deductable. I'm getting a refund on the GAP and my extended warranty, equaling about $2300. What did GAP pay? $219 dollars. THAT'S IT. This car was worth WAY less than we owed, and GAP only payed $200. Be careful, people. They don't pay prior damages, and any car in the world is going to have something wrong with it. What was worth $770 on my car? A busted tail light, a small rip in the seat, a chip in the window, and a couple small dents. Yeah, that's it. (And some of this stuff was there when I bought the car!) I am canceling the GAP coverage on our replacement vehicle and signing up with Progressive's "Loan and Lease" which has nothing to do with the condition of the car, just the loan itself, although it only pays up to 25% above market value. As long as the used car you buy is close to bluebook value, you won't have to worry about a gap in payment. Yeah, $30 a year is worth that.
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:55 am Post Subject:
and well, I don't see how GAP helped me.
You answered your own question in your original post. It didn't pay the prior, it paid the finacial burden that you would have paid out of pocket had you not had the coverage. Thats how it helped you.
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 01:22 am Post Subject:
The prior damage amount would have been higher
See that's where you're wrong, and not understanding the difference between pre-existing damage, unrepaired prior damage, and wear and tear. The older a vehicle gets the more wear and tear is 'normal', and even expected and not ACV reducing.....Also, its cheaper at Progressive because they only cover 25% above market value. The GAP you get at a dealer is 90% above market value.
Ok, wait a sec here...first of all it's a given that you've made a REALLY poor financial decision, if you owe more than even 20% more than your vehicles value...But how on earth could you owe 90% ? :? Your case is a perfect example...you were just under 15% upside down on your vehicle....(your payoff was 8703.49 after subtracting your warranty and GAP refund-the ACV was 7413.00-leaving a balance oweing of 1290.49 or 14.827% course your 500.00 deductible, and the 770.00 in prior damage then came off of this figure...) And in truth, had you not had any prior damage...you would've only been 6% or $520.48 upside down..So you see 90% is really a ridiculous proposition, and frankly just fluff and double talk to charge the unsuspecting higher premiums (IMO)..
The car I have now was a fleet vehicle, although an '05, it's still got prior damage.
Oh boy...I hope you didn't pay full retail for this one! :shock:The console is cracked, and I assume that's not cheap to fix
Actually it is, you should be able to find a good used lid or even the entire console pretty cheap.There are a couple of dents as well, and I have a feeling I would get "charged" more for this prior damage than on the Buick,
If it's rough, sure you will...just like you didn't pay full retail for it because of this damage right?so what's even the point? Oh yeah... the point is, people: be aware!
I couldn't agree more...but I'd say...People be aware of what you are signing...Unfortunately Kate, Trench hit the nail on the head, and you admitted the same, when you postedBesides, it says right on the back of the thing you sign at the dealership that they will not pay prior damage OR wear n tear. (Wish I would have seen that.)
So to be totally honest here Kate, rather than warnings about GAP coverage, you should be warning people to read BEFORE they sign ANYTHING! right? :wink: :wink:Chalk it up to a life lesson...you'll never sign anything again without fully reading and understanding it will you :) And as mistakes go this one was a pretty cheap one all in all :wink:
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 06:38 pm Post Subject: Please Explain
Quote: See that's where you're wrong, and not understanding the difference between pre-existing damage, unrepaired prior damage, and wear and tear. The older a vehicle gets the more wear and tear is 'normal', and even expected and not ACV reducing....."
Maybe you can explain this to me a little better, because I would think that any damage that was on the vehicle prior to any accident would be minused by GAP. The longer I own the vehcile, the more things will happen to it. The seat'll get ripped again, or another rock chip, or maybe a small fender bender... tack on more money for the longer I own the car. Does it matter if the wear n tear is ACV reducing, because GAP says it won't pay for wear n tear either. By the time all this happens I would surely owe less on the loan itself, but pay more out of pocket for prior damages.
Quote: Your case is a perfect example...you were just under 15% upside down on your vehicle...."
You're absolutely right - I had never done the math for that, and it makes me feel much better canceling this GAP and getting the Loan and Lease from Progressive instead.
And about the '05 Malibu... I believe retail was higher than what they were selling the car for, but the salesman wouldn't budge on lowering the price anymore ($5,999) even though it was really close to having 100,000 miles on it. But carfax was squeeky clean and my mechanic said it was in really good condition. I actually didn't notice the dent near the trunk because the car is white and it's more like a dip than a dent, but I'm sure he wouldn't have lowered the price if I told him that either. It's a fleet vehicle and he said (yeah I know) that he was barely making any profit on it to begin with, plus they fixed a couple of issues we had found while test driving for free. *shrug*
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 02:38 am Post Subject:
Maybe you can explain this to me a little better, because I would think that any damage that was on the vehicle prior to any accident would be minused by GAP
it is very confusing even for adjusters some times...so I totally understand your confusion...what a carrier is talking about (as it relates to a total loss or a vehicles ACV) when the say, 'prior damage' or 'pre-existing damage', is something that would detract from the value, and be noticed and/or pointed out by a prospective buyer of the vehicle (before the wreck that totaled it of course)..As a vehicle ages more and more of this 'prior damage' is ignored and considered 'normal wear and tear'...as an example...a big door ding in a 10 year old car is expected and would not detract from it's value...however, that same door ding on a new vehicle would reduce it's value..Does it matter if the wear n tear is ACV reducing,
ABSOLUTELY, that's the ONLY thing that matters...if (as I said) it's considered 'normal' or 'expected' wear and tear that doesn't reduce the ACV, and would'nt have been even written up on a prior damage sheet /est ...What they mean by wear and tear is ACV reducing (like your torn seat)..I'm glad you're happy with your new car....
But carfax was squeeky clean and my mechanic said it was in really good condition.
Let me warn you about carfax...first of all carfax, can only provide the information that they receive, pay for or steal :wink: I had a claim just last week, a 2008 Grand caravan, minor hit to the rear end..the insured had just purchased it two weeks prior...it was not a total loss, but I could tell the entire front end had been worked on and not the best job, and frankly the hair on the back of my neck stood up, so I ran and ISO on it...guess what? It was a prior enterprise car, (ins. knew this), it was also totaled out in July 2009! This the insured did NOT know...I had the displeasure of telling him this, because I thought he should know...I also could tell he had a lein holder on the vehicle and he did NOT have GAP coverage...A salvaged title on a vehicle this age (if it totaled) would reduce the ACV by at least 25%, then he would've been stuck with about 5k left with his lein holder and no car, (again assuming it would total)...To say the least he was upset...and the 'carfax' well it came back perfect! Carfax is NOT the be all and end all that they would want you (the public) to think. I have no idea where the majority of their info comes from but I do know where it DOESN'T come from, and that's insurance companys...and who totals most cars? This of course is not to say that your vehicle isn't clean...just a testiment to what carfax is not....Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 05:26 am Post Subject: Thanks
Thanks for the info, it gives me a better prospective in all this. It's too bad Carfax isn't as good as it seems. What's an ISO?
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:50 pm Post Subject:
ISO stands for "Insurance Services Office" which really doesn't apply to what it is, I think that's the name they came up with about forty years ago and just kept it...It's a data base, that most (if not all) carriers subscribe to..it logs all claims on a particular vehicle or property.
What I (or other adjusters) use it for is the 'claims search' function...I can put a VIN in and it will pop up anything and everything that has happen to the VIN...
There are many other uses, I think on the underwriting side, (when a policy app comes in), they also run it for the same thing...
There are many other functions (injurys to name one), this information is insurance company driven.
This also is where questionable claims can be submitted to NICB (national ins. crime bureau)...many many other things that I do even mess with :wink:
Carfax, of course does not have this information, no insurance company is going to give or sell it to them..Carfax (as far as I know) will not tell 'exactly' where they get their info. I know they try to get shops (and carriers) to allow them into their/our estimating software to pull information...but few if any allow it...IMO carfax is a joke... :roll: and VERY misleading..
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 05:27 pm Post Subject:
GAP insurance may seem like a good idea in the beginning but its always better to fully check and read the policies before signing up.
(link removed by moderator-lori--please do not put links to your site in your posts...please read and adher to the terms of use)
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 06:30 am Post Subject:
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