by janice12881 » Tue Nov 27, 2007 02:47 pm
by Monday morning the other drivers insurance was on the phone with us telling us we need to bring out car to a network body shop to get it fixed. We told them we would like to take it to our own shop to get it checked before we do anything. We appreciated their quick response although the car is still drivable. They seemed mad that we wanted to take it to our own guy. Why do they seem so rushed and push their car shop? don't we have the right to bring it where we want? The other thing is the rear ended accident has caused a lot of damage to the undercarriage, and they told us if they come out to adjust for us to bring it to our own guy they will only pay what is seen on site not what is under the plastic cover bumper piece. This seems shady? also they told us we only get the rental option if we bring it to "their" network body shop. any advice? Thank you!
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 03:40 pm Post Subject:
Most of that _is_ incorrect.
The insurance company would _like_ to have their preferred shop inspect the damage as it saves them the cost of inspecting the vehicle, about $100 per claim. Over the course of 10,000 claims you can see how the adds up. In return, the shop can start working on the vehicle right away (no approval is needed) and the insurance company usually stands behind the shops repairs (life time warranty). When I worked for carriers that used preferred shops, we would not have people go to a preferred shop if we _knew_ they were not going to use them but could also point out that even if they got the estimate from the preferred shop, they could just give that estimate to any other shop they wanted to have the work done at and it would be honored.
The rest of the information you got is garbage (it's twisted into being incorrect or perhaps, at best, misunderstood). If they have one of their appraisers inspect the damage, he/she will only write up what they can see (same as their preferred shop). However (!), once the shop tears down the vehicle, if they discover any additional damages, the appraiser will be called and he/she will add any additional damages to the cost. A supplemental payment can then be issued. It happens all the time.
Lastly, the insurance company owes Loss of Use. That is, the portion of your loss in that you don't have use of your vehicle. If you get a rental, then the about of LOU is based on that expense. I explain it this way as it's easier to see that any rental cost is owed no matter where a vehicle is repaired... it's even owed (perhaps a lesser amount, though) if a rental is not obtained.
I mentioned the savings to the insurance 1st for a reason. The people in run insurance companies _love_ to save money as it's their job to make more money. So they "encourage" their employees to "push" network repair shops. It's also _highly_ possible that adjusters in the company you are dealing with might even have some type of reward for having the most people go to network shops. As you can probably see, this may make some adjusters say things that they should not.
My recommendation is to call the adjuster for that carrier and make sure you "understand" what they told you (no supplemental damage from the rear ended accident will be covered and no Loss of Use/rental will be paid if you don't use a preferred shop. My guess is that they will point out the "misunderstanding". If they don't, ask to speak to a supervisor. Or if you want to give the adjuster a taste of their own medicine, ask for this in writing. Of course they won't do it and will need then have their backs against the wall. You can then ask for a supervisor.
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:41 am Post Subject:
Good morning Janice, and welcome...
Let's see if I can shed some light on this for you...
They seemed mad that we wanted to take it to our own guy.
If you are dealing with the company that I 'think' you are (given your verbage), the reason for this, is if it doesn't go to a network shop then that rep is going to have to go write the estimate, rather than ''handing'' it off to a network rep who will handle all of the property damage for them...there is no incentive other than that adjuster doesn't have to write the estimate, nego. with the shop, go back for any supplements, and keep you updated throughout the process...which really is an incentive of sorts isn't it? :wink:don\'t we have the right to bring it where we want?
absolutely you do! You will not get a warranty from the insurance company however, and will have to argue any problems on your own, if you are not satisfied with the repair in some way, if not repaired at a preferred shop. Or should this shop for some reason go out of business and a problem crops up, then again you are on your own as the insurance company did not ''back'' the work done by this shop.The other thing is there is alot of damage to the undercarriage and they told us if they come out to adjust for us to bring it to our own guy they will only pay what is seen on site not what is under the plastic cover bumper peice. This seems shady?
There isn't anything 'shady' about this they can and will only pay for damages that they can see. As tcope explained if there is hidden damage they will go to the shop once the vehicle is under repair and if a supplement is required they will write and pay it at that time.
also they told us we only get the rental option if we bring it to "their" network body shop.
I'm sure you misunderstood this. A couple of scenerios that might have been brought to your attention. A network shop per their contract (if same company I think it is), agrees to begin work on the vehicle immediately. The rule of thumb is about 4 repair hours per day. So if your estimate is (for ease of figuring) a 20hour job, that would be about a 4-5 day repair (depends on car and parts but lets assume that). The network shop normally will have that vehicle done in that time frame. If your shop on the other hand, has your car ''in line'' and it's down let's say ten days...Then the insurance company is not going to pay you additional rental because your shop isn't actively working on your vehicle. They will pay you the 'fair' amount of days rental that they job should take...understand? All of this of course is based on the assumption of a 'driveable' car.
The insurance company would _like_ to have their preferred shop inspect the damage as it saves them the cost of inspecting the vehicle, about $100 per claim
Not all direct repair programs work the same, the company I work for (I am a network rep), 'I" write all the estimates on these vehicles we do not have nor allow the shop to do so. However once I write it, we (shop manager and I) go over the estimate in detail and reach and agreed price. The vehicles are fully torn down when I arrive assuring (as much as possible) that all damage is found and addressed. The savings comes with complete estimates (no supplements) and a smoother repair. Also they must get the vehicle under repair immediately...Our vehicles don't set on the back lot, thus lowering rental costs, and (hopefully) providing higher customer service. Also owners are given a warranty not only from the shop but from the insurance company as well.The final decision about where you repair your car is TOTALLY up to you. Just be sure you have all the information you need to make an intelligent, informed decision...
Please let us know if we can be of further assistance to you...
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 01:12 pm Post Subject: Thank you thus far.
Lori and Tcope Thank you so much for your very what seems like experienced advice. Thankfully we are not exposed to this often enough to be that knowledgable in this.
We contacted the adjuster for the other drivers insurance
and they are coming out to look at the vehicle on Thursday. We are going to a collision shop that is closer then the network shop they offered to us.. plus we had work done there before and I TRUST them. That is the biggest peace of mind to me. When she(the adjuster) comes out on Thursday I will discuss the loss of use of the vehicle while in repair, "our" body man said it will take about 4 days. I'm in hopes they will cooperate with us as far as compensation and or rental is concerned. My other worry is when our collision man looked over the vehicle , just like everyone else who looks at it says.. "oh ok that doesn't look too bad" but when the hatch is raised the entire floor part of the vehicle is pushed up so the floor has to be replaced completely. On immediate view we didn't even know this had happened, not until the next morning when we went out to check out the car. I knew it was a HARD rear ended accident and boy did we feel it... but we were in hopes that the damage was minimal. The officer on scene wrote a non-reportable ticket and handed to us. I understand when that is done its because they feel the damage is under a certain amount? Does this become a problem when the cost is more later on? Our shop guy says its going to cost at least $3000.00. He suggested we get the adjuster out ASAP. He was shocked by the damage. We were too although our soreness in our aching bodies knew it way before us. We have no plans to go into any type of pain or suffering claims .. BUT this sure is a pain in the neck! no pun intended. Thank you so much for your help!!! Do you have any other advice or questions that I should absolutely address when the adjuster comes out on Thursday? Is there anything i'm missing? :D
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:42 am Post Subject:
good morning Janice....yes, between tcope and I, likely about 35-40 years or so experience.....
You don't say the make of your vehicle, but this is not uncommon, for a rear ended accident, to wack the rebar, shoving it into the rearbody, and kicking up the rails causing the floor to rise...more than likely the rear body panel will be replaced but I seriously doubt the floor will be...although they look awful, most times the floor will come out....just point this out to the adjuster when she comes out...anything you can do to help her get access to the damage will be benefical...It will still be address once it is in the shop and full tear down has been accomplished thus making the damage fully viewable...(if she tore it down in the field, which she likely isn't qualified to do it may render the vehicle non-driveable)...you might also look to the 'gaps' on the backs of your rear doors, more than likely they are closed up...and may even be buckles high on the 1/4 panels near the roof...again these come out easily with pulls and are very common with this type of impact...please rest assured that once in the shop your shop and the adjuster will address all the damage...
plus we had work done there before and I TRUST them.
That's all that matters that you chose a shop you have confidence in..the adjuster) comes out on Thursday I will discuss the loss of use of the vehicle while in repair, "our" body man said it will take about 4 days
Couple of things here, no way are they replacing a floor with four days repair, and other is, they will pay for a rental while your vehicle is under repair, but not all companies will just pay you loss of use (company i work for will not) they will pay to provide you transportation while yours is down however..Does this become a problem when the cost is more later on?
It won't with the adjuster, your state may require a state report be filed though, which (I'll assume) the adjuster will handle, but this is no big deal..
We were too although our soreness in our aching bodies knew it way before us. We have no plans to go into any type of pain or suffering claims
If you think there is any possiblity that you all suffered an injury now is the time to get this checked out! Please think about it, only you know how your body feels....if there is any lingering question, consider seeing your doc..I'm not talking about running up a BI claim...but also firmly believe (as all GOOD adjusters do) that we owe what we owe...if you got hurt and think you should get this at least checked out then do so, be sure and advise your adjuster as well..Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance to you....
Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 03:59 am Post Subject: Thank you , once again.
The adjuster came out.... she checked out our vehicle after that she came in the house and handed us the estimate of the rear ended accident damage which was about 2000.00 less then the estimate our repair man gave us... BUT! she did tell us that once the car was torn down she would go to the repair shop and check out the situation and see how much more she would have to pay out or negotiate with the shop. We told her we would need the rental vehicle while the car is in for repairs she said ok no problem. We went to the repair shop after and gave our repair man the estimate and made an appointment for Monday. We called and left a message with the adjuster letting her know we would need the rental for Monday, minor thing but she never called us back.. we called her back late Friday after we were done with work to find out what was up? she said she never recieved our message therefore the rental wasn't taken care of yet...... she pretty quickly was able to give us a reservation # for the rental.. but we can't get the rental until after 5 on Monday because we work.. my bad. I told her we were out a vehicle on Monday and I want compensation... I'm not messing around, this is a loss to us and totally the other drivers fault. she chuckled .. I understand from Lori's post that not all companies compensate for loss of use, but still.. chuckle at us?
While the adjuster was here I mentioned that we had some injuries my son hurting his lower back and me my shoulder and neck.. Minor thankfully and told her it went on my insurance as our state is a no fault state .....At which point she asked if we were going to file a claim against the company for that., my answer was I don't know at this time. Why is she asking if i'm going to file a claim against them if its a no fault state? Am I supposed to file an injury claim for the doc's bills to both insurance companies? (at fault driver and ours?) Hey! all your information like clock work has been on the money! Thank you so much. I guess now the only questions are....at the point when they do the tear down and she comes out and they (they being our body shop man and the adjuster) discuss it, if she doesn't agree to pay for what he's saying it should be , do we pay the difference? And other question is... Do I file some type of injury claim to the adjuster? Thanks ahead of time for your wonderful, educated and experienced advice!
:)
Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:43 pm Post Subject:
Good morning Janice,
if she doesn't agree to pay for what he's saying it should be , do we pay the difference?
Not typcially, of course it depends on what those differences are....for instance, if you DEMAND new oem parts and your vehicle 'quailifies' for alternative parts and she wrote those then yeah, maybe...if that comes up, let me know and perhaps I can ease your mind about some of that....as far as the actual repair, more than likely won't be any huge difference, and she should get a meaningful agreed price to repair your vehicle from the shop manager/owner. Now, let's say he wants to replace a floor, she might tell him she wants it pulled first and then will re-evalute it...(have to pull it anyway even if it were being replaced which as I told you is very rare)...If the shop is charging a higher labor rate than is customary for the area, and shop refuses to charge the rate they are paying at other shops, again although rare this does happen. Just let us know and we'll address those things IF they come up but I doubt it....She and/or the shop should make contact with you after the supplement is written to advise you what additional damage was found etc....
And other question is... Do I file some type of injury claim to the adjuster? !
Are you in a PIP state? If so your injuries have to eclipse the thresold in order to file a claim against the other parties policy. I don't know why she's asking either...but I guess if I were you I'd say 'yep'...If you want let us know your state and we can get some more information about that.....Or you might ask the adjuster with your company how this works....if so let us know please...
not all companies compensate for loss of use, but still.. chuckle at us?
Well, that was unprofessional and she shouldn't have done that....I'll assume the shop is taking you all to work monday, then after work you are picking up the rental? I guess you could raise a stink about it...but not sure it will get you anywhere. Is it your work schedule that isn't allowing you to pick up the vehicle until five monday? or the car rental company won't have a car till monday after five? If it's your work schedule then I really dont' think you can hold her responsible for that...Had I been you I more than likely would've requested dropping the vehicle off saturday morning if possible (rental car places usually open till noon on saturdays), so I would've had a car monday am....Pick your battles Janice, I think maybe I'm not grasping this part of the 'problem' maybe you could elaborate, this old brain just ain't getting it... :roll: sorry...i'm dense sometimes! :wink:
It sounds like she is handling your claim quick and efficently thus far right?
Thanks ahead of time for your wonderful, educated and experienced advice
You're welcome and glad we can help....
Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 02:35 pm Post Subject:
Good Morning Lori,
Ok, are you the adjuster in my case? *smiles* I'm kidding of course. But you sound JUST like her. We are extremely pleased that she is moving quickly on this, after all the holidays are coming up and who wants to be bothered with this? As far as the repair on our vehicle.... I am not demanding new oem parts or anything other then the vehicle be restored to its condition it was before the loss. The adjuster did say once they "walk" out the rear that a lot will fall into place and like you said, she is thinking the floor will pull out too and not need to be replaced hence the big difference in estimates. In one of my previous posts I said the entire floor. I'm sorry I worded that wrong. Its a small SUV and I meant just the floor in the rear of the vehicle. I feel like the repairs on the vehicle will be OK. I was just worried if their minds didn't meet (adjuster and our collision shop man) that we would end up paying the difference.
I do know already I am in a PIP state. When we went to the doctors they ask us for our car insurance information for that reason. I honestly am not sure if we are going to file a claim is why I said to the adjuster "I don't know at this time" Only because I really don't know! And I have no idea why she asked either.. except that I told her that we were to the doctors and the medical bills went thru our insurance.
As for the rental car. We are dropping the vehicle off on Sunday at the repair shop. My husband and I both leave for work at 5 a.m. the rental place opens at 8 a.m. I am hitching a ride to work with a co-worker and my husband is driving my vehicle to work. So yes we are unable to pick up the rental because we are both going to be working. I'm not choosing battles Lori. We are trying to have a smooth transaction, like I said who wants to deal with this at all? Ifin someone was paying attention to the road instead of slamming into the back of our car on black Friday then I wouldn't even have the pleasure of coming to this forum to ask questions. We are trying to arrange a Saturday pick up so we won't have to fuss on Monday, Mondays are always so busy. The rental car place offers some 20 dollar for the weekend deal for insurance customers. I think we will take them up on it. although........ Why am I paying 20 dollars out of my pocket? I'm trying to make things easier on us come Monday. Shouldn't the insurance company be worried about that? Ask me again at the end of this car repair if she's handling this efficently I think i'll have a more accurate answer for you. Thank you again for your wealth of knowledge.
Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 03:14 pm Post Subject:
Ok, are you the adjuster in my case? *smiles*
NO!!! :lol:
But you sound JUST like her.
No Mam!! I wouldn't have chuckled (so you could hear me at least ! :wink: )...........
Its a small SUV and I meant just the floor in the rear of the vehicle
Yeah, I think more than likely you're talking about the rear body panel...and where the floor welds into the rearbody panel, commonly repaired and/or replaced....
hence the big difference in estimates
Shops typcially write worse case scenrio on their preliminary estimates ''just in case'' adjusters can't they have supervisors, auditors etc, reviewing their estimates/photos routinely and if you cannot 'prove' your decision to repair or replace that's not a good 'place to be' if you get my drift... :cry:
I was just worried if their minds didn't meet (adjuster and our collision shop man) that we would end up paying the difference.
That's understandable and most people are, but these adjusters work with shops everyday...It is very rare when a mutal agreement cannot be reached...
I honestly am not sure if we are going to file a claim is why I said to the adjuster "I don't know at this time"
Since you are in a PIP state, I doubt that you even can, unless you eclipse the threshold and doesn't sound like it will...do you know your states threshold?
We are dropping the vehicle off on Sunday at the repair shop.
Can you not pick up your rental today as well?I'm not choosing battles Lori
I'm sorry Janice I wasn't inferring that you were being argumentative, I believe that in life, we should always wisely '' pick our battles'' meaning (in this instantance) if it was something out of the ins company or rental car companies control that you didn't get a car till monday pm, then I'd let that one go too....sorry about the miscommunication... :oops:
Why am I paying 20 dollars out of my pocket?
I don't know except that the vehicle won't be actually 'into' the shop till monday...but 'I" would've allowed this saturday drop given your circumstance...Did the adjuster say you'd have to pay for saturday and sunday or does she even know this is your plan?Shouldn't the insurance company be worried about that?
Yeah, I think she ''should'' could be a 'branch' or 'state' policy even...and if you didn't have to be at work, yada, yada, then I would'nt approve the saturday thing, but clearly that's not your case....Talk with her about this if you have not..Let us know the answer. I would think she would reimburse you for that...
While we are on the rental car thing, you understand that your policy on the vehicle being repaired should transfer to the rental right? (check with your agent to be sure) the rental car companies ALWAYS ask if you want to purchase the damage waiver, the insurance company WILL NOT pay for that...(just giving you a heads up)....should you chose to accept that....
Thank you again for your wealth of knowledge.
You are very welcome, tis my pleasure, I joined this (and a few other forums) to try in some small way to help folks thru the trauma/drama, and confusion of insurance claims....glad to know I was able to assist you..don't know about 'wealth of knowledge' though...ha ha...
If you don't mind me asking which state are you in (there's only about 12 or so PIP states)....Also please keep us updated, and certainly any other questions you have. I kind of get alittle 'invested' in these claims, and like to hear the outcomes! :P
Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 02:48 pm Post Subject:
Good morning Janice,
First off I want to say that I hope everyone is okay. I just had a small minor accident with my car and they let me take it to any garage in the area. They asked me on the phone is I had a place in mind? It looks like you have alot of help here, I read the entire post and wanted to leave a comment, hope everything is okay and that you and your family survived this without injury.
I know that dealing with the insurance companies can be a real pain when filing a claim, especially when it is the others guys insurance company, I had a guy rear end me and do about $8000 in damage about 8 years ago, when they started playing games with me, I let them talk to my insurance company, I just had enough of thier attitude, and trying to push it off on me, I was sitting still when the accident happened. My mother was hurt in the accident, I told them they could deal with my insurance company and her attorney, they changed their attitude pretty quickly. goodluck, I hope this all works out for you.
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:20 pm Post Subject: The less the better.
Thank you good natured! We are all in hopes that are aches and pains are nothing major. Im sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience with a similiar type accident. And I also hope your mom is OK at this point.
Also Thanks to Lori once again. We picked up the the rental on Saturday taking advantage of their 20 dollar weekend deal for insurance clients. I guess 20 dollars is not worth arguing over when we are all where we need to be come this morning (Monday). And I am with you 150 percent over choosing battles, when you are right you are right!
Cars in shop, and we await what will happen next. I'm in positive thought mode that everything will just go smooth. Or maybe its just denial? I'm not sure yet.
have a fantastic Monday! :)
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