by AutoBody by Jake » Thu Jan 17, 2008 02:36 pm
Thought it best to start a new topic. Maybe there's people out there that have questions about DRP's and the shops that become one.
I've got quite a bit of experience with the direct repair program process and it's ups and downs, yes. There's a fair bit that goes on behind the scenes, and that's where I see some headaches.
Do you have any experience with them where you are? What do you think of them?
I've got quite a bit of experience with the direct repair program process and it's ups and downs, yes. There's a fair bit that goes on behind the scenes, and that's where I see some headaches.
Do you have any experience with them where you are? What do you think of them?
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 01:16 pm Post Subject:
Do you have any experience with them where you are? What do you think of them?
Oh yes, tons...I'm currently a direct repair program rep for a large insurance company...I've also been a shop manager (for a large shop) and have been on that side as well...Like all things in life there are good ones and bad ones....I think it's always important to remember that as the vehicle owner you have the choice where to repair your vehicle...Are there 'perks' associated with using a drp darn right there are....are they ALWAYS the best choice, maybe not....with most direct repair programs, the shops have to meet certain standards, both with their equipment, insurance, and tech certifications...Most important to the consumer would be that the repairs are backed not only by the shop it's self but generally also by the carrier...Which is a hard thing to find...what other industry backs (in writing) another person/businesses work?
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 06:31 am Post Subject:
Most important to the consumer would be that the repairs are backed not only by the shop it's self but generally also by the carrier...
Yeah, that's remained the greatest concern for any customer. I feel butterflies in my stomach whenever my car walks into a body shop for repairs. And i experience lack of sleep during the phase. I normally prefers the direct repair programs, because i don't have to take the pain of monitoring the repair works day in and day out. But I've also seen some of friends to feel comfortable going to their chosen body shops because they simply don't trust the enlisted repairers.
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 06:53 am Post Subject:
Well I've experienced that the adjuster exerts some kind of pressure to enroll the customers under the direct repair program. And that makes me uneasy and skeptical about their true intention.
The body shops, under the direct repair programs are required to fix the car as cheaply as possible to save money for the insurer. The insurer and the body shops definite go hand in hand to low ball your claim and fix your car with below standard parts. What are my options if I feel that they are deliberately devaluing my claim ? The adjuster is definitely going to stick to the quote given by the bodyshop. :?
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 01:55 pm Post Subject:
Let me see if I can clear up a few things re: Direct repair programs
CarlosPererra----
And i experience lack of sleep during the phase. I normally prefers the DRPs, because i don't have to take the pain of monitoring the repair works day in and day out
Sorry you lose sleep over vehicle repair first of all, although it's a pain in anyone's butt when their vehicle is out of service and being repaired...you make a valid point in that it is not your responsiblity rather the adjusters to monitor the repair and keep it on track in a direct repair program (or should be :roll: ) thus removing this burden from you.But I've also seen some of friends to feel comfortable going to their chosen body shops because they simply don't trust the enlisted repairers.
I heard this all the time, and if a person has another shop they prefer then that's fine, and they should certainly use the shop of their choice but to refuse one simply because it is a DRP I think is foolish. And in many cases they are cutting off their nose to spite their own faces...(if that's the only reason)..You should understand as well that the DRP shops have to meet pretty high standards...thus eliminating 'not so good' shops in some cases...(not all mind you, some companies will only allow a certain number of shops in an area, and I'm not saying in any way shape or form that if a shop isn't a DRP then they are a bad shop...so don't go there please... :wink: just that the DRP's go thru many steps-generally-to be considered a DRP)Now, Aurther---
Well I've experienced that the adjuster exerts some kind of pressure to enroll the customers under the direct repair program. And that makes me uneasy and skeptical about their true intention
I can see how that could make you uneasy, and there is some pressure, but let me see if I can tell you what it truly is...rather than simple non-fact based assumptions and wide ranging allegations on your part...First most companys that have DRP's their adjusters are to refer a certain percentage to these shops for alot of reasons, and one is cost BUT NOT THE WAY YOU ARE THINKING...it lowers the COST OF THE CLAIMS HANDLING...NOT NECESARILY THE COST OF THE REPAIR...allow me to explain...if you go to a DRP (depends on the company and how their programs are run, but this will be pretty darn close for all of them)...Let's assume this is the way the drp runs (most are this way, the company I work for however is not, and I'll explain that in a minute)....The vehicle is referred to the DRP...the shop (not an adjuster) writes the estimate and photos the vehicle, and either uploads it for approval or begins repairs...now, the company has already saved a couple of hundred dollars, by the shop doing this rather than an adjuster going out and doing it...The DRP shop is supposed to put these vehicles at the top of the repair list, meaning these cars are fixed first....now we've saved several hundred more dollars (presumeably) in rental car bills...The car after it's repaired has a problem...the ower goes back to the DRP and the shop resolves the issue, either gets authorization from the ins carrier or just does it...again, several hundred more dollars saved because the adjuster didnt' have to go back out..or hire and monitor an independent appraiser to do the same see? And if an independent is called in now, you have to add their fee to the claim.... Now mulitply that by thousands and thousands of claims...how much of a savings is that?
Now why does the adjuster want you to use the DRP so bad? As I said they are supposed to refer a certain percentage, (part of their goals) also (and this is the MAIN REASON I assure you)...because then the adjuster gets out of A LOT OF WORK! Once it's referred then either the DRP rep or the shop handles the rest! That is a no-brainer (I don't care who or what industry your in)...if the owner chooses a non-drp then the adjuster either has to go inspect and photo the vehicle write an estimate negotiate it with the shop go back to the shop if there is a supplement, then go back again if there is a re-work issue....does that make more sense?
The body shops, under the DR programs are required to fix the car as cheaply as possible to save money for the insurer
This ''might'' be true in a small percentage, but I would say that this is an uninformed statement without any proof to back it up..or if you do have proof, put it forth....All insurance companies have guidelines re: vehicle repair, and they are going to write or pay to repair that car the same at a DRP or non-DRP shop...and do you really think that all shops are crooks? The DRP shops are typcially top of the line shops, with great buisness ethics...Do you really think they are going to repair your vehicle to subpar standards? I'm not going to say that there may not be a dispute from time to time regarding a particular operation, there are, but there are in all shops.......frankly I think this is a bigger slap in the face of the shops than the insurer..do you really think there are that many shop out there that would sign up for a drp ''requiring'' them to fix cars the cheapest way possible, (the inferance you have made of course is sub-standard work, they are of course 'required' to repair it the most cost effect means, but wouldn't you require the same if you were paying the bill?)..Some DRP shops give carriers a lower labor rate, or parts discount (the co i work for there is none), but that still doesn't mean the repairs are not completely properly...just because the bottom line is lower than ''billy bob's body shop'' down the street doesn't mean billy bob didn't inflate his sheet does it?
The insurer and the body shops definite go hand in hand to lowball your claim and fix your car with below standard parts.
Such a bold statement, prove it!!!!!!...again you are calling all shops (and carriers) crooks.....and I take personal offense at this statement...I NEVER have 'lowballed' a repair in my life...do I write after market, used, or reman parts to repair some vehicles if it meets the guideline, of course...do you buy/use generic medication or do you pay top dollar for OEM? Do you always buy name brand everything? Or the store brand if it's just as good? A/m parts have come a long long way in the past 20 years...and frankly CAPA certified parts (which are the only ones my company and I think all companies will use-and all companys have guidelines and restrictions regarding their use) carry a longer warranty that oem! You need to do some research before you make such statements and paint two entire industrys with one paint brush!
What are my options if I feel that they are deliberately devaluing my claim ?
Are you fixing the car? If you are what difference does the final cost make as long as it is fixed properly? explain that! I promise you that all shops are using the EXACT same parts...if you find a shop that tells you they NEVER use a/m, reman, or lkq/used parts..you've found a shop that is lying to you....The adjuster is definitely going to stick to the quote given by the bodyshop.
That's not true either! For one think I am a drp rep-for an insurance company I WRITE ALL THE ESTIMATES....NOT THE BODY SHOP!Your response with data/proof to back up your statement are greatly anticipated.
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 02:32 am Post Subject:
If I had one in my area, I would use it, just because the insurance company would be really familiar with them too and I would trust that they would work together to get my vehicle back on the road as soon as possible, I did not understand the term at first, but I get it now, It just makes sense to use them if they are in the area. But of course it is always good to have the choice of where to go.
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 01:34 am Post Subject:
Insurance companies try to steer(which is illegal) their customers to DRP shops because the company will save money if you go to that shop. They save money because they convince the shop that if they give them a discount on everything they will make up for it in volume. There are many, many things that the insurer whats from the shop, even the shop to pay tow bills and rentals. Insurers have basically ruined the collision business with DRP programs. They went from being a easy, convenient option for customers to being a way for insurers to totaly control a repair. The collision business has been invaded so badly by insurers that if a shop does not have a few Direct repair programs they stand little chance of staying in business. If they have no DRP's most work will be steered away from them anyway when the customer turns their claim in. It makes me sick that companies who lie and cheat anyone possible have ruined what used to be a good well paying profesion. The average NY autobody hourly rate is $44. This is absolutely ridiculous in todays world and what things cost. A spray booth is $60,000-$80,000, a frame machine with a measuring system is $40,000, basecoat is at least $30 a pint, clear is $100-$200 a gallon, a box of sand paper is $75 dollars, pay your staff, insurance, rent, all other utilities and that $44 a hour does not go too far. Not to mention that your techs have at least $10,000 in their own tools, but they haven't gotten a raise in 5 years because the labor rate hasn't gone up. What happens if you tell a insurer your rates are now $55? You get told some one down the street only charges $44 and they won't pay that rate. Collision techs are making less money now then they did 20 years ago. So next time all you people are cutting time off some guys estimate and telling him this is included and we don't pay for this or that, look at his toolbox that costs more than your company car and think about why this innocent guy gets screwed on every job, because of you and your companies policies. Also, what gives a adjuster who has never repaired a car in his life the right to tell some one who has years and years of experience and training how to repair something and how long it takes. Nothing, he has no right at all. I don't care how many ICAR classes you take if you have never done the work you don't tell me how to do my job.
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 02:21 am Post Subject:
Insurance companies try to steer(which is illegal) their customers to DRP shops because the company will save money if you go to that shop. They save money because they convince the shop that if they give them a discount on everything they will make up for it in volume.
I can't speak for all companies, but I can speak in general for one company. This company recommends a direct repair program shop but if the customer mentions another shop they'd like to use, then the direct repair program is no longer pushed. Steering IS illegal, you are right, and we don't practice it. The direct repair program shops are setup for customer convenience, where a customer can get in and get an estimate written right away, put them in a rental if needed, and get the repairs underway.
There are many, many things that the insurer whats from the shop, even the shop to pay tow bills and rentals. Insurers have basically ruined the collision business with DRP programs. They went from being a easy, convenient option for customers to being a way for insurers to totaly control a repair.
You cannot paint all insurance companies with one brush, as much as this topic is very volatile. There are a lot of insurance companies that do not request any discounts, they pay their own tow bills and they pay their own rentals. This would be like saying all body shops are going to rip a customer off. You know as well as I do that that is not true. And neither is the fact that all insurance companies are out to ruin all body shops.
The collision business has been invaded so badly by insurers that if a shop does not have a few DRP's they stand little chance of staying in business. If they have no DRP's most work will be steered away from them anyway when the customer turns their claim in. It makes me sick that companies who lie and cheat anyone possible have ruined what used to be a good well paying profesion.
I know several shops that do not have any Direct repair programs and they do very well. They are in a market where there is a lot of work though. And guess who pays the bill on the repairs? The insurance company. As far as good well paying profession, it still is. I work with many million dollar+ shops. If there was no money left in the industry, then where are these guys making a profit?
The average NY autobody hourly rate is $44. This is absolutely ridiculous in todays world and what things cost. A spray booth is $60,000-$80,000, a frame machine with a measuring system is $40,000, basecoat is at least $30 a pint, clear is $100-$200 a gallon, a box of sand paper is $75 dollars, pay your staff, insurance, rent, all other utilities and that $44 a hour does not go too far. Not to mention that your techs have at least $10,000 in their own tools, but they haven't gotten a raise in 5 years because the labor rate hasn't gone up. What happens if you tell a insurer your rates are now $55? You get told some one down the street only charges $44 and they won't pay that rate. Collision techs are making less money now then they did 20 years ago.
I feel your pain here. I haven't had a decent raise in years either. The insurance companies are making billions of dollars a year, and getting tight everywhere. Bonuses? Ha! Wish I knew what that was. With that being said, it isn't the insurance company that sets the rates. It's the auto body shops. If you look at some states compared to others, where the metropolitan area is not as big as others, yet they make more, it is because the body shops in that state copied one another and raised prices across the board.
If you feel that that labor rate is not fair, correct me if I am wrong, but is there not a way all the body shops in that region can do the same thing by raising prices across the board? If Joe Doe has a shop in Podunk and charges $42, but Mike Blank in Metroville charges $48, then someone needs to change! Because unless Podunk raises it's prices, when the insurance company does its survey, the insurance company is going to average those two shops and whammo! Your're stuck in the middle.
So next time all you people are cutting time off some guys estimate and telling him this is included and we don't pay for this or that, look at his toolbox that costs more than your company car and think about why this innocent guy gets screwed on every job, because of you and your companies policies.
First of all, we don't look at the guy's toolbox. We don't look at the car he drives or whether or not he lives in a half million home. We write the estimate per the estimating systems. Some things are included and others aren't. It's your job to show the tech what is included, instead of blaming the insurance company all the time. If it is not an included operation and you can show this to the adjuster then he's going to allow it. If he is not allowing it, he is doing himself and the insurance company a disservice because it's his job to bring the car back to pre-loss condition.
On the flip side, I know there are insurance companies that have outlandish objectives for their DRPs to make where a shop will feel that they are being squeezed.
Also, what gives a adjuster who has never repaired a car in his life the right to tell someone who has years and years of experience and training how to repair something and how long it takes. Nothing, he has no right at all. I don't care how many ICAR classes you take if you have never done the work you don't tell me how to do my job.
In the same respect, what gives the body shop estimator the right to write an estimate when he has never repaired a car? I've seen shop estimators that have never turned a wrench, never repaired a car and yet they are writing sheets on vehicles. Where are their qualifications? How can this particular person relate to the tech and know whether or not the tech is telling the truth.
Yes, I will agree with you that there are insurance adjusters who should not be out in the field writing but it works both ways.
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 02:23 am Post Subject:
Let me see if I can clear up a few things re: DRP's...
Lori, just wanted to say fantastic answer! I wish I had something to add to it!
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 02:52 am Post Subject:
I know there are a few good companies out there. State Farm is about the only company I have some respect for. I have had just about every company try to stick it to me one time or another. The company that really gets to me is Progressive and the companies that hire ex Progressive staff to learn their slimy ways. I personally was insured with them and had to file a claim. It was the biggest nightmare I ever dealt with. I have been around this both business' my whole life. I have seen companies do things that are just plain wrong and even illegal. You can act like it doesn't happen, and be a company man, but we both know what really goes on. Why do most companies want preliminary estimates as low as possible and everything supplemented. Because there is a chance that the customer will take the check and not repair the damage, thus short changing the customer. What about this USAA estimate I have sitting right next to me. '07 Mazda 3, bumper cracked needs replacement, adjuster deducted 1 hour from paint time for UPD scratches on opposite side of damage that was claimed. This bumper was damaged from the accident beyond repair and needs to be replaced, so why does it even matter if the other side had a scratch. Maybe we should just paint the new bumper drag it across the floor, and tell the customer thats the way it looked before the accident. I bet they would be happy with that. I can see deducting paint time on a repair panel for UPD, but not a replacement. I I don't have to worry about being fired from a insurance company so I do whatever I can to let people know how crooked the inusrance business is. There are some estimators that have never fixed a car, but most are guys that just wanted to get off the floor. A good shop wants a writer who knows what to do and how to get paid for everything.
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 06:58 am Post Subject:
Hi, I meant no offense Lori, what I said is the general idea. You as an adjuster yourself may know the story behind the screen…………..but common people (like me) don't understand all this intricacies. I know about people, who are expressing their rues over the work done by the body shops. Well, that may be only few instances (accepting your view that it is not the normal practice :) ) . You personally might not have lowballed any claim in your entire life …..but it's unfortunate that not all the professionals are like you.
Insurance companies try to steer(which is illegal) their customers to DRP shops because the company will save money if you go to that shop. They save money because they convince the shop that if they give them a discount on everything they will make up for it in volume.
Well, it seems that I'm not the only one who has something to say against a direct repair program and I guess I preserve the right to have my own opinion. :D
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