Senior Healthcare Consultants: How safe are they for agents?

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 05:08 am Post Subject: SHC Senior Manager

I am a senior manager with Senior Healthcare Consultants working out of the Dallas Corporate office. This website was recently brought to my attention. First off, I want to thank all who have commented here and I appreciate both the positive and negative comments posted.

This blog appears to be a fairly popular forum for discussion involving insurance for both consumers and the business entities that service this industry. As an insurance marketing company SHC would like to be a part of those discussions with you. I set up this account in order to allow members of our Senior Management Staff to respond under the same heading. The idea behind that is so that anyone reading this blog can be sure where the information is coming from.

We as an organization want to get better at what we do and how we explain things, your thoughts and comments will go a long way in allowing us to do that. I have set up an email address, for those of you who prefer to remain anonymous and wish to contact us directly rather than post your name on a blog. The goal with this is to take the necessary measures to ensure clearer understanding of our business. We will gladly, openly discuss any issues or questions you may have via this blog, but if you prefer direct email, you can contact us at shc_answers@shcmarketing.com.

I intend to get the answer to questions posted on this site or sent via email as quickly as possible, but please give me at least 72 hours to direct your questions or comments to the appropriate manager and respond.
I appreciate the opportunity to connect with you on this forum where we can join in a level of professionalism and bring clarity as well as address any misunderstandings and/or issues regarding SHC in an open and clear manner.

Thank you.

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 05:21 am Post Subject: SHC Senior Manager

I am a senior manager with Senior Healthcare Consultants working out of the Dallas Corporate office. This website was recently brought to my attention. First off, I want to thank all who have commented here and I appreciate both the positive and negative comments posted.

This blog appears to be a fairly popular forum for discussion involving insurance for both consumers and the business entities that service this industry. As an insurance marketing company SHC would like to be a part of those discussions with you. I set up this account in order to allow members of our Senior Management Staff to respond under the same heading. The idea behind that is so that anyone reading this blog can be sure where the information is coming from.

We as an organization want to get better at what we do and how we explain things, your thoughts and comments will go a long way in allowing us to do that. I have set up an email address, for those of you who prefer to remain anonymous and wish to contact us directly rather than post your name on a blog. The goal with this is to take the necessary measures to ensure clearer understanding of our business. We will gladly, openly discuss any issues or questions you may have via this blog, but if you prefer direct email, you can contact us at shc_answers@shcmarketing.com.

I intend to get the answer to questions posted on this site or sent via email as quickly as possible, but please give me at least 72 hours to direct your questions or comments to the appropriate manager and respond.
I appreciate the opportunity to connect with you on this forum where we can join in a level of professionalism and bring clarity as well as address any misunderstandings and/or issues regarding SHC in an open and clear manner.

Thank you.

Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 04:51 pm Post Subject:

Nice try, but most people posting here don't want a dialogue, they want Senior Healthcare Consultants shut down for fraud, and they want fair compensation for their hard work from years past. At the very least, they want no one else to make the mistake they themselves did when they paid your organization for the privilege of having their finances destroyed and their families put in turmoil.

Seriously. How do you even reconcile wanting to "gladly, openly discuss any issues" with longstanding SHC practices like prohibiting trainees even being able to speak to each other? Anyone familiar with SHC understands there's nothing behind the veneer of honesty but a couple of cowboys running a burnout agency. Divide, conquer and profit. Your post might sound good to the unwary, and that's who you prey on when you recruit and bleed new agents, but it's really just a pathetic attempt at damage control and PR posturing.

Looking forward to seeing your racket shut down for good, and glad people are finally doing something about it.

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 01:57 am Post Subject:

"Yeah, not so much" , let's give him/her a chance, see if they 'really' do come back with ANSWERS...the proof is in the puddin' honey...let's just see ...

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 04:54 am Post Subject: Not so much

Not so much,

Thank you for your response. I will attempt to address your points as they are laid out.

If anyone feels they are owed money from a past relationship with SHC, please email shc_answers@shcmarketing.com and we will gladly look into it and respond to you individually. We cut checks to former agents all the time and while our system is not perfect, we do our best to ensure you get your money if it is due.

To your question regarding, “prohibiting trainees even being able to speak to each other?”, we obviously cannot stop people from communicating with each other, but we do discourage it. The reason being, a big part of any sales position is attitude. When one person develops a poor or negative attitude, that attitude is easily spread and adopted by others. We do our best to assist our salespeople by ensuring their daily contacts are with others who encourage and inspire. We for the most part know what our management’s attitudes are and how they respond to agents, but we cannot control what other agents’ attitudes are. Our goal is to provide our agents, especially the new agents, with assistance and coaching from people who are positive, supportive and who want to see them succeed. Once someone reaches the management level we encourage networking, team building, along with some healthy competition.

Although you may believe that we are better served when an agent in our agency quits, in actuality we are much more prosperous as a company when we retain our agents long-term.

Regarding those who run this organization, it is run by hard working people trying to provide for their families like everyone else out there. We have many long-standing agents who are happy for the financial opportunity SHC has provided for them and their families as well.

Thanks again for opening up the conversation and please send any particular requests or questions to shc_answers@shcmarketing.com.

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 05:22 am Post Subject: Stay Away From SHC

I wont go into the long gory details of my experience with SHC, but I will tell you I worked for them for a long time. Much longer than I should have and much longer than any sane person would given similar circumstances. The bottom line here is that the company is all about lining the pockets of a very few select indidviduals in the upper management structure. Lets look at the numbers... SHC has been actively recruiting agents for over 7 years.. In that time they have brought on board an average of 7-10 people per week so in that time frame they have brought on approx 3000 agents. At the present time there are less than 12 people in the company that have been there for more than 2 years you do the math. It is a churn and burn organziation. They have legitimate products and a decent sales presentation, but the real gold is in the fact that if you leave them or should i say if they terminate your contract for any reason even if you are "vested" in any renewals (which only happens on a vesting schedule of 20% per year until full vesting after year 5), you will see no renewal income if you leave. In addition they will only be paying you a renewal of 7-9% even though the carrier will be paying them about 24%. Upper Managment will call that spread "covering overhead and expansion to provde the consultant with more oportunities in the future. I call it highway robbery. I now have carrier contracts paying me the 24% and have and will continue to roll all my business with them and beg them to come after me. My Non Compete says I cant do it but let em sue me my customers signed up with me and they have no desire to be with an organiztion unelss i am a part of it. Sales is all about building relationships and I have that with my customers and thanks to sHC now have a knowledge base to sell this needed product to seniors. Thanks Richard for the training it will make me rich one day too.

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:50 am Post Subject: No Good

I don't know who the person is from SHC Management, but I don't believe a word they say. I saw it all for myself. What they call positive people coaching you is really people leaving you multiple voice mails wanting to know what you sold. When you call with a question no one answers the phone and even worse if you leave a message - no one EVER returns the call to answer your question. Eventually, they will have you drive further and further in an attempt to force you to quit. That of course is after you are out oh say about $3,000. They claim to have over one hundred agents, but when you go to a "mandatory" team meeting there is about 30% of that number in attendance. Also, the only people that are there more than a year are the ones "lining their pockets". No one else makes it past a year. The upper management makes their income by charging people a fee and withholding their commissions. You figure if they hire a class of 20 and do this to them, within a month the upper management has made about $100,000. The whole thing is a scam and I can't wait to see them out of business. KARMA - WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND!

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 08:24 pm Post Subject:

So SHC wants to open a dialogue and answer questions? Fantastic. Let’s stop playing softball, shall we?

1) How many people did SHC recruit in the last five years, and of that number, how many are currently in the organization as selling agents? How about two years? One year? I’d love to put a real number to Senior Healthcare Consultants’ absurd claim that there is actually more than a snowball’s chance in hell of success. And please, don’t give me the “you weren’t dedicated or working hard enough” excuse. All of us worked until we couldn't see straight just to try to make ends meet on your lousy commission.

2) Of the total number of applications issued with RJR as general agent in 2009, how many were churned or twisted from previous SHC consultants? One favorite trick of SHC and their “system” seems to be going behind an agent and recycling not only leads, but policyowners. It’s no wonder most former agents are getting demands for payment months or years after they have separated from SHC even though the amount of business they wrote should have more than covered the incredibly meager amount they were advanced. As you might imagine this practice is highly unethical and illegal...and yes, I myself was encouraged to churn or twist many policies while a Senior Healthcare Consultant.

3) IRS Form SS-8. Ever hear of it?

4) Whatever possessed SHC to believe it could continue to represent itself as an A+ rated company by the Better Business Bureau when in fact that was and is no longer the case? Do you understand that this is misrepresentation?

5) Whatever possessed Senior Healthcare Consultants to claim, through supervised training of its agents, that all Medicare Advantage PFFS and PPO plans were being discontinued as of January 1, 2010 when that was and is not the case? Do you understand that this is a not only misrepresentation, but remains a fraudulent and actionable claim with CMS?

6) Have new and prospective agents been properly advised of SHC’s related past problems before entering into a binding contract with Senior Healthcare Consultants? Straight from the Texas Department of Insurance:

Dale, Richard Page, Jr. of Fort Worth
Order Number: 040796
Date of Order: 8/16/2004
Order Final In: August
Action Taken: $42,000 fine; 3 year probated suspension of General Life, Accident and Health License
Violation: Materially misrepresented terms and conditions of an insurance policy; Twisted and used high pressure tactics in marketing Medicare Supplement Coverage to senior citizen consumers

7) With all that said, are you really all that surprised that your BS has finally reached critical mass?

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 06:43 pm Post Subject: SHC Manager

Stay Away –

Thank you for your response; you are in fact an amazing example of the lengths SHC goes to try to retain consultants. Let’s address your post one item at a time.
1. Agents do not work for SHC, agents are in business for themselves –
SHC provides support:
a. Preset, verified appointments
b. Extensive support staff
c. Carrier selection and contracts

All of this is provided, along with much, much, more not even mentioned here, to allow a Sales Professional to do what they do best...Face time with customers to assist and protect them if there is a benefit. This allows for helping more customers and allows agents to generate more revenue!

2. Your math on the recruiting numbers is incorrect. We make it very clear to any agent looking at this opportunity that this is not for everyone and that we are like many of the sales organizations out there where they constantly have people coming, people staying and people going. It is a relatively well known fact that 100% commission sales opportunities tend to correlate with high turnover ratios. The point, no position that I am aware of is perfect for everyone and we go to great lengths to explain this up front.

3. To the accusation that we are a churn and burn operation, I will use an example here of an actual recently departed agent who made decisions that made it impossible for us to continue the relationship. We as an organization did all we could to help him to become successful. The following represents the lengths SHC goes to retain every agent that it can:

a. At one point he was doing fairly well and even made it into a training position where SHC attempted to help him grow his business by helping him build a team of agents under him. SHC paid for all of the recruiting, training, and all daytime management of his subordinates.

b. SHC provided training in different locations around the country, paid for all of the training facilities, trainers and managers. Additionally, SHC supplied and paid for systems for daily training meetings which this manager was not even required to attend while his agents received free training designed to benefit themselves and this trainer.

c. This agent then got a percentage of the commissions generated from all sales made by his trainees, to include a portion of the renewals. Unfortunately SHC could no longer invest in this aspect of his business when several members of his team made it clear that he was not following the training and system that we were teaching them and was attempting to engage in inappropriate training practices with trainees and staff. At this point SHC had no choice but to discontinue investing in that part of his business and he was removed from all training and management.

d. He was worked with both in person and in meetings extensively, at SHC’s expense, and all attempts possible were made to get things back on track. He was given a second chance with training and he slowly slipped back into old habits and ended with the same results.

e. His inability to handle the minimal requirements of his position (reporting, persistency reports, etc.), in conjunction with his ever worsening ability to keep the business he wrote made it increasingly difficult to continue to invest in this individual even at an agent level. Yet again all attempts were made to get him back on track. We had mangers go and ride with him, again, paid for by SHC. Extensive work was done in an attempt to get him back on track. It was determined that he was not closing his business in an ethical manner and he was taught the correct way to solidify the business that he wrote.

f. His persistency continued to fall all the way to the point where roughly 40 % of his business cancelled.

g. We provided training after training in an attempt to get this straightened out. He continued to insist on closing business his way. In an additional attempt to try and help him get things on track, we assigned a manager to start calling each of his clients, after the sale, to make sure that they were happy with their decision to purchase the coverage, that he had done everything according to the training provided and as required by law. It was again determined that he was not.

h. At this point he was given one final warning and it was made clear that we would not only terminate our relationship with him if he continued to run his business the way he was but that we would do anything necessary to protect the seniors against this type of a sales approach. We had a manager assigned to him, again, to help any way that we could to get him on the right track. His persistency rose for awhile only to start right back down.

i. This was the end of our relationship as other things were discovered that indicated that he was violating our contracts with him along with the obligations to our carriers and to those he was working with.

So Stay Away, sadly you clearly state in your blog that you care little for the Ethics of the industry as you admit to going against the contracts you have signed, not only with SHC but with carriers and with your State’s Insurance commission – as all clearly prohibit rolling business. SHC does not arbitrarily terminate contracts. The particular scenario you mention (rolling your own business) is the primary reason agencies require non-compete clauses and have to be wary of advancing commissions to someone who has terminated their relationship with the agency. As we have stated previously, it is better for us to retain agents.

4. You also mention not paying vested renewals. We do pay vested renewals to former agents who have earned them and add people to those rolls as they arise. Your assumption here is simply not factually correct.

We will never encourage anyone to blatantly be unethical even if it is under the guise of “for my customers”. Agents roll business to gain additional commissions which is rather self-serving, and as stated, unethical. Our concern is, and always will be, what is in the best interest of the seniors we are entrusted to work with. I would strongly discourage you from doing anything that is not a clear benefit for the seniors just to gain income for yourself!

We will continue to do all we can to give you, and anyone, clear, candid communication regarding what we do and how we do it.

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 06:48 pm Post Subject: SHC Manager

Stay Away –

Thank you for your response; you are in fact an amazing example of the lengths SHC goes to try to retain consultants. Let’s address your post one item at a time.
1. Agents do not work for SHC, agents are in business for themselves –
SHC provides support:
a. Preset, verified appointments
b. Extensive support staff
c. Carrier selection and contracts

All of this is provided, along with much, much, more not even mentioned here, to allow a Sales Professional to do what they do best...Face time with customers to assist and protect them if there is a benefit. This allows for helping more customers and allows agents to generate more revenue!

2. Your math on the recruiting numbers is incorrect. We make it very clear to any agent looking at this opportunity that this is not for everyone and that we are like many of the sales organizations out there where they constantly have people coming, people staying and people going. It is a relatively well known fact that 100% commission sales opportunities tend to correlate with high turnover ratios. The point, no position that I am aware of is perfect for everyone and we go to great lengths to explain this up front.

3. To the accusation that we are a churn and burn operation, I will use an example here of an actual recently departed agent who made decisions that made it impossible for us to continue the relationship. We as an organization did all we could to help him to become successful. The following represents the lengths SHC goes to retain every agent that it can:

a. At one point he was doing fairly well and even made it into a training position where SHC attempted to help him grow his business by helping him build a team of agents under him. SHC paid for all of the recruiting, training, and all daytime management of his subordinates.

b. SHC provided training in different locations around the country, paid for all of the training facilities, trainers and managers. Additionally, SHC supplied and paid for systems for daily training meetings which this manager was not even required to attend while his agents received free training designed to benefit themselves and this trainer.

c. This agent then got a percentage of the commissions generated from all sales made by his trainees, to include a portion of the renewals. Unfortunately SHC could no longer invest in this aspect of his business when several members of his team made it clear that he was not following the training and system that we were teaching them and was attempting to engage in inappropriate training practices with trainees and staff. At this point SHC had no choice but to discontinue investing in that part of his business and he was removed from all training and management.

d. He was worked with both in person and in meetings extensively, at SHC’s expense, and all attempts possible were made to get things back on track. He was given a second chance with training and he slowly slipped back into old habits and ended with the same results.

e. His inability to handle the minimal requirements of his position (reporting, persistency reports, etc.), in conjunction with his ever worsening ability to keep the business he wrote made it increasingly difficult to continue to invest in this individual even at an agent level. Yet again all attempts were made to get him back on track. We had mangers go and ride with him, again, paid for by SHC. Extensive work was done in an attempt to get him back on track. It was determined that he was not closing his business in an ethical manner and he was taught the correct way to solidify the business that he wrote.

f. His persistency continued to fall all the way to the point where roughly 40 % of his business cancelled.

g. We provided training after training in an attempt to get this straightened out. He continued to insist on closing business his way. In an additional attempt to try and help him get things on track, we assigned a manager to start calling each of his clients, after the sale, to make sure that they were happy with their decision to purchase the coverage, that he had done everything according to the training provided and as required by law. It was again determined that he was not.

h. At this point he was given one final warning and it was made clear that we would not only terminate our relationship with him if he continued to run his business the way he was but that we would do anything necessary to protect the seniors against this type of a sales approach. We had a manager assigned to him, again, to help any way that we could to get him on the right track. His persistency rose for awhile only to start right back down.

i. This was the end of our relationship as other things were discovered that indicated that he was violating our contracts with him along with the obligations to our carriers and to those he was working with.

So Stay Away, sadly you clearly state in your blog that you care little for the Ethics of the industry as you admit to going against the contracts you have signed, not only with SHC but with carriers and with your State’s Insurance commission – as all clearly prohibit rolling business. SHC does not arbitrarily terminate contracts. The particular scenario you mention (rolling your own business) is the primary reason agencies require non-compete clauses and have to be wary of advancing commissions to someone who has terminated their relationship with the agency. As we have stated previously, it is better for us to retain agents.

4. You also mention not paying vested renewals. We do pay vested renewals to former agents who have earned them and add people to those rolls as they arise. Your assumption here is simply not factually correct.

We will never encourage anyone to blatantly be unethical even if it is under the guise of “for my customers”. Agents roll business to gain additional commissions which is rather self-serving, and as stated, unethical. Our concern is, and always will be, what is in the best interest of the seniors we are entrusted to work with. I would strongly discourage you from doing anything that is not a clear benefit for the seniors just to gain income for yourself!

We will continue to do all we can to give you, and anyone, clear, candid communication regarding what we do and how we do it.